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Drewg(OD)

D2 ONLY RULE CHANGE REQUEST

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9 hours ago, Drewg(OD) said:

You don't play, so I assume you have no idea the reputation this clan has gained in the PVP community. Reality check, it isn’t good.

 

 

Don't assume too much, Aern was with me when we started SC2. OD already didn't have the greatest reputation as a competitive clan on SCBW. SC2 we were knocking off professional teams and had players participate, and win on world stage events. Some of which signed multi year deals with professional teams. SC2 is not D2, but its the highest achievement OD has ever accomplished in competitive gaming.

 

Work with each other, you'll see better results...that goes both ways @Aerineth(OD)

 

9 hours ago, Drewg(OD) said:

I constantly see threads begging to improve recruitment, well the PVP community is the blood for the trading community and the main reason people level characters in the first place in this day and age.

 

This is legitimate. Before stepping down this was my primary focus; however, work/life didn't care about my gaming endeavours. For the jsp community, your 100% correct. PvP is D2 end game. Like it or not, OD does house a significant higher number of members just looking to hang out and grind. Not my cup of tea, but as a community we got to cater to both sides of the fence.

 

This is where I think your expertise will excel. Clint/Robbie/zee are all household names on jsp. If we can continue to build a solid pvp foundation here in OD, it will in turn generate more membership. 5 ladders ago OD didn't have a pvp division, doesn't look like much but we have had 20 man tournaments in pvp only a season ago. Spearhead projects alongside @DBZ(OD) / @MooMoo(OD) to generate more membership. FG awards go a long way in generating members. FG for new players regardless of a 0-10 record, help fill positions in tournaments, and may gain more members in the pvp community.

 

9 hours ago, Drewg(OD) said:

Being able to see full teams of OD tagged characters go into a game and just completely dominate turns heads, hell, me joining turned heads and had top players like Vert and Zee both thinking about joining. 

 

myself @SeeD(OD) and @Trump(OD) have shut down games, unfortunately only one of us had an OD tag. It would be nice to see everyone on a tag.

 

The suggestion of having specific shared "tagged" accounts I think is legitimate. I believe you will find success in having "shared" Player vs player accounts. PVP(OD)1 PVP(OD)2 etc something along those lines. We could even have current non pvp members level them for forum gold. That way you get a 100% legit account that doesn't have a chance of getting banned for using bots. 

 

Could have the email for these account registered through @DBZ(OD) / @MooMoo(OD) / @PoPs(OD) / @Purplez(OD) . That way if the account is ever compromised, they have the ability of reinstating it.

 

Anyways I'm not trying to bash, I've just seen members get heated in the past, and not see a good end goal through. I want you to succeed in OD, because I believe your a valuable asset to the ODD2 community. That being said, we gotta work together. I like the ideas that are coming forward, and now its time to build something the leadership of ODD2 and OD can agree upon.

 

Keep at it

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1 hour ago, SuNSeT said:

Don't assume too much, Aern was with me when we started SC2. OD already didn't have the greatest reputation as a competitive clan on SCBW. SC2 we were knocking off professional teams and had players participate, and win on world stage events. Some of which signed multi year deals with professional teams. SC2 is not D2, but its the highest achievement OD has ever accomplished in competitive gaming.

 

Work with each other, you'll see better results...that goes both ways @Aerineth(OD)

 

This is legitimate. Before stepping down this was my primary focus; however, work/life didn't care about my gaming endeavours. For the jsp community, your 100% correct. PvP is D2 end game. Like it or not, OD does house a significant higher number of members just looking to hang out and grind. Not my cup of tea, but as a community we got to cater to both sides of the fence.

 

This is where I think your expertise will excel. Clint/Robbie/zee are all household names on jsp. If we can continue to build a solid pvp foundation here in OD, it will in turn generate more membership. 5 ladders ago OD didn't have a pvp division, doesn't look like much but we have had 20 man tournaments in pvp only a season ago. Spearhead projects alongside @DBZ(OD) / @MooMoo(OD) to generate more membership. FG awards go a long way in generating members. FG for new players regardless of a 0-10 record, help fill positions in tournaments, and may gain more members in the pvp community.

 

 

myself @SeeD(OD) and @Trump(OD) have shut down games, unfortunately only one of us had an OD tag. It would be nice to see everyone on a tag.

 

The suggestion of having specific shared "tagged" accounts I think is legitimate. I believe you will find success in having "shared" Player vs player accounts. PVP(OD)1 PVP(OD)2 etc something along those lines. We could even have current non pvp members level them for forum gold. That way you get a 100% legit account that doesn't have a chance of getting banned for using bots. 

 

Could have the email for these account registered through @DBZ(OD) / @MooMoo(OD) / @PoPs(OD) / @Purplez(OD) . That way if the account is ever compromised, they have the ability of reinstating it.

 

Anyways I'm not trying to bash, I've just seen members get heated in the past, and not see a good end goal through. I want you to succeed in OD, because I believe your a valuable asset to the ODD2 community. That being said, we gotta work together. I like the ideas that are coming forward, and now its time to build something the leadership of ODD2 and OD can agree upon.

 

Keep at it

Again you are entirely correct, I'm not trying to be a bad guy here. I will however, stand up for what i believe is progress and correct.

I'm a Dinosaur on this game, I've been running a tier 1 PVP clan for 20 years, if you asked me if i saw myself here in 20 years I'd have laughed and nk'd you. But this clan deserves recognition, it deserves a respectable reputation in the end goal of this game.

 

@Aerineth(OD) I'm sorry if I offended you, I didn't call that member dumb either, you just read it incorrectly. Again I'll state that when this rule passes doesn't mean you HAVE to share an account. Quite the opposite. It just gives you the option to do so. 

 

I'd be glad to just see us move forward instead of wallow in the same old thing again and again and wonder why nothing is changing. (Insanity FYI)

 

Anyways, see ya in the moor.

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Although I'm not very good at the pvping, I do respect what you guys/gals do in that area.  So to show my support, if the Commanders and D2 division leaders agree to the shared account, I have registered the account PVP(OD), and already have you a level 40 druid bumper.  The names of the toons are uncreative in that they are OD-DruidPvP etc.  If the rule doesn't get changed, I'll just use the bumpers I make on this account to help Clan members and new recruits.  

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You haven't offended me. If i was, i probably shouldn't be a Commander.

 

As much resistance as you think I'm providing, its still Diablo 2s leadership to make this decision. I see the merits you show, but i see the complications that will arise.

 

I commented on you handling access to your account perhaps better not because i assumed you were pushing for an inclusive 'everyone must share their accounts' but because eventually someone will think itll be a good idea to share it with someone who stabs them in the back. We have so many many types here in od.

 

Someone's going to get upset eventually. Could be immediate, could be months or years. But itll happen, and our recourse shouldn't be to tell them well you trusted the wrong person, choose wiser next time while wisening up.

 

I merely voiced the distaste in account sharing because ive seen manny people burned for it 

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It is admirable that you are willing to stand strong for what you believe is necessary, and although I'm just an observer you've convinced me of the validity of your points. The reputation of our Clan is undeniably very important, and if there are opportunities to make it better then they are definitely worth pursuing. However, one of the only things more important than our reputation is the safety and security of our members. The primary argument against the change is that it opens up the opportunity of thievery and impersonation, and considering that the D2 Division's history is positively checkered with incidents involving both of these, as Dabomb alluded to, they are pretty reasonable concerns to have.

 

Feeling strongly about change is good, but just wanting a change isn't enough on its own. The key is in figuring out how to make the change in a way that works. After all, there is little point in resolving one problem if you just create another in turn. The "how" is important, and this is where you are struggling a bit. As of so far your answer to the problem of thievery and impersonation is "That'll only happen if you're dumb, it'll never happen to me because I 100% trust the people I let on my accounts". I think it's safe to say there are a few flaws with that approach, which Aerineth has been trying to point out to you (and I think is very much in context) but you've instead interpreted his actions as just being a stubborn nay-sayer.

 

If your plan for dealing with the bad things is to bank on them never happening, then I don't think reality is going to treat you very nicely. Trusting someone implicitly doesn't mean you aren't going to be betrayed, rather it is the one requirement to being betrayed. If we allow our members to open up their accounts to others then sooner or later someone they trust is going to abuse it. Not because we are dumb, but because we are a community of good people and it is in our nature to believe the best in people, and try to connect with others. Most of the time that works out well. Once every so often it does not. And sometimes people can seem great all the way up to a point where something sets them off, and it turns out they weren't the person you thought they were. You only have to look at what happened with Ray to see an example of that.

 

 

 

So you have to assume that something will go wrong eventually, and therefore any change that takes place needs to take that into account. This is where you need to be a bit flexible, you can maintain your end goal but you need to be willing to change your approach to reach it. Fortunately this topic has sparked a lot of ideas, and a lot of different ways to progress towards what you want while, if not entirely eliminating, then at least minimizing the risk of abuse. So although you could continue flipping off Aerineth, if change really is your goal then I think you should consider his realistic concerns and focus on the ideas being presented to see if you can build upon them, and find a solution that achieves what you want while also safeguarding our members and the community at the same time.

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Posted (edited)
47 minutes ago, Aerineth(OD) said:

You haven't offended me. If i was, i probably shouldn't be a Commander.

 

As much resistance as you think I'm providing, its still Diablo 2s leadership to make this decision. I see the merits you show, but i see the complications that will arise.

 

I commented on you handling access to your account perhaps better not because i assumed you were pushing for an inclusive 'everyone must share their accounts' but because eventually someone will think itll be a good idea to share it with someone who stabs them in the back. We have so many many types here in od.

 

Someone's going to get upset eventually. Could be immediate, could be months or years. But itll happen, and our recourse shouldn't be to tell them well you trusted the wrong person, choose wiser next time while wisening up.

 

I merely voiced the distaste in account sharing because ive seen manny people burned for it 

Thank you Commander, and I do agree.

 

 

32 minutes ago, Terra said:

It is admirable that you are willing to stand strong for what you believe is necessary, and although I'm just an observer you've convinced me of the validity of your points. The reputation of our Clan is undeniably very important, and if there are opportunities to make it better then they are definitely worth pursuing. However, one of the only things more important than our reputation is the safety and security of our members. The primary argument against the change is that it opens up the opportunity of thievery and impersonation, and considering that the D2 Division's history is positively checkered with incidents involving both of these, as Dabomb alluded to, they are pretty reasonable concerns to have.

 

Feeling strongly about change is good, but just wanting a change isn't enough on its own. The key is in figuring out how to make the change in a way that works. After all, there is little point in resolving one problem if you just create another in turn. The "how" is important, and this is where you are struggling a bit. As of so far your answer to the problem of thievery and impersonation is "That'll only happen if you're dumb, it'll never happen to me because I 100% trust the people I let on my accounts". I think it's safe to say there are a few flaws with that approach, which Aerineth has been trying to point out to you (and I think is very much in context) but you've instead interpreted his actions as just being a stubborn nay-sayer.

 

If your plan for dealing with the bad things is to bank on them never happening, then I don't think reality is going to treat you very nicely. Trusting someone implicitly doesn't mean you aren't going to be betrayed, rather it is the one requirement to being betrayed. If we allow our members to open up their accounts to others then sooner or later someone they trust is going to abuse it. Not because we are dumb, but because we are a community of good people and it is in our nature to believe the best in people, and try to connect with others. Most of the time that works out well. Once every so often it does not. And sometimes people can seem great all the way up to a point where something sets them off, and it turns out they weren't the person you thought they were. You only have to look at what happened with Ray to see an example of that.

 

 

 

So you have to assume that something will go wrong eventually, and therefore any change that takes place needs to take that into account. This is where you need to be a bit flexible, you can maintain your end goal but you need to be willing to change your approach to reach it. Fortunately this topic has sparked a lot of ideas, and a lot of different ways to progress towards what you want while, if not entirely eliminating, then at least minimizing the risk of abuse. So although you could continue flipping off Aerineth, if change really is your goal then I think you should consider his realistic concerns and focus on the ideas being presented to see if you can build upon them, and find a solution that achieves what you want while also safeguarding our members and the community at the same time.

 

You underestimate me, I've only left it open for dissemination. I wish for the leadership that has been the one to provide this argument to come up with the solution, I actually did post more besides "if you're dumb", in this thread.

 

I'm am thankful for your extremely well worded and thus thought out response, which shows that I am actually being taken seriously and that maybe we can yield results, you merely need speak with your division leaders on the topic to find out I have accounted for what can happen when it comes to the exact incident you named, i.e. Ray. I would like to maybe speak to a few of you on Team Speak tonight, including to ODD2 division leaders with my thoughts on the project. However, in the end, while this may be the Clan I am in, it is not MY clan per say. It's yours. The decision must come from above, as a Warrant and basically Knight, all i can do is provide options to the senior leadership.

 

I have much influence on this game, its actually stupid and yes I have been stolen, although I've personally never stolen. I understand the reasoning.

 

I will have a list of options written down tonight, grievances and ideas, if you will. That I would love to present tonight, if you will have me.

 

Thank you for your time, Commander.

 

 

Edited by Drewg(OD)

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Ultimately the decision lies with D2 leadership. That being said, we can't be afraid to try something new simply because there is potential to let us down. If that were the case then nothing would ever change and many people would likely leave the clan eventually out of boredom and lack of trust in the leaders to adapt. This is no longer 2005 and we cannot treat it as such. Sometimes we have to step out of our comfort zone to try something new and see what comes of it. If it truly does cause more issues than it is worth, then at least we can strike that one off of the list and figure out something new. 

 

PvP isn't going away and the shared accounts could always encourage other opportunities such as a shared BO barb / Chant Sorc / C Rusher / G Rusher / Uber Killer. I definitely see potential in it, but in the end it is up to the leaders and regardless of the decision they make I will do my best to support it. 

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34 minutes ago, MooMoo(OD) said:

I will do my best to support it. 

This

 

 

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Posted (edited)

after all this, nothing has changed

 

what a waste, im not mad it didnt happen how i hoped something would, but the fact that all we can do is something that was already allowed, how boring...a babystep or something was desired by all who pvp, we didnt even achieve that

 

 

boring drama thread

Edited by Drewg(OD)
total drama island

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Change doesn't happen over night!  Be patient Drew.  🙂

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17 hours ago, Drewg(OD) said:

after all this, nothing has changed

 

what a waste, im not mad it didnt happen how i hoped something would, but the fact that all we can do is something that was already allowed, how boring...a babystep or something was desired by all who pvp, we didnt even achieve that

 

 

boring drama thread

Can always beg for forgiveness rather then ask for permission 😉

 

I dont see an issue with creating an OD account that says pvp(OD). Put in the description the members that use that account. Done

 

Not like that account gets added to site anyways.

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Posted (edited)
17 minutes ago, SuNSeT said:

Can always beg for forgiveness rather then ask for permission 😉

 

I dont see an issue with creating an OD account that says pvp(OD). Put in the description the members that use that account. Done

 

Not like that account gets added to site anyways.

sure, you wanna level and gear them all every season plus ur chars?

Edited by Drewg(OD)

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8 hours ago, Drewg(OD) said:

sure, you wanna level and gear them all every season plus ur chars?

with statements like this.. where do u think it will get u? u wanted a sharable account.. u get one then u want others to lvl n gear it... seriously?

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12 minutes ago, Froggie420(OD) said:

with statements like this.. where do u think it will get u? u wanted a sharable account.. u get one then u want others to lvl n gear it... seriously?

Hes kidding cause he knows I hate leveling chars lol

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Froggie420(OD) said:

with statements like this.. where do u think it will get u? u wanted a sharable account.. u get one then u want others to lvl n gear it... seriously?

Ok first off, no, thats exactly what I didn't want and what was already allowed.

Two, thats the point buddy boy, nobody wants to make extra characters and pay for the gear, hence SHARING lmaooo

Three, SERIOUSLY?!?!!?!!!!!!!!

 

smooches

Edited by Drewg(OD)

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3 hours ago, Thresher(OD) said:

Thanks guys these are all great ideas

Banned again. I can do this all day Ray.

 

As far as the rest of this thread, let's cool it off a bit. Not every idea presented will be passed. There are some ideas that need more work to iron out before they'll be passed.

 

It's obvious that this time, it didn't pass. Refine it, or approach the topic differently. Don't give up after having the idea decided against. Clearly you're a valuable member to the D2 division, and I think you could come up with a different alternative, one that we can all be comfortable with to push forward.

 

Lets end the hostility exhibited in this thread. Continuation will result in the thread being locked.

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This rule change would affect roughly 180 members.....One of the main reasons that this rule exists is to protect our members. Our history has many examples of people getting banned over something someone else did on their account....An OD account is your clan identity so to speak and represents you....I can understand the reason behind this request and in fact i even agree with some...but the reality is the benefits do not overcome the potential risks.....the good of the many and so forth...However, @Drewg(OD) I dont think we should dismiss the possibility of an alt account or even multiple alts with different levels of access...I am still talking with DBZ and Sassy...I know some PvP'ers already share non OD accounts, so perhaps that could be transferred to OD accounts and I think the squad working together, those playing on the accounts can help build the characters.... and the squad leads can maintain these accounts and continue the practices that are currently in use.....or something to this effect

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, Drewg(OD) said:

Ok first off, no, thats exactly what I didn't want and what was already allowed.

Two, thats the point buddy boy, nobody wants to make extra characters and pay for the gear, hence SHARING lmaooo

Three, SERIOUSLY?!?!!?!!!!!!!!

 

smooches

i have in the past created a shared crush account not tagged, that 5 ppl shared. ur point is invalid. 

 

 

we as a team came together n geared n lvled this toon. noone whined. noone bitched n noone stole a thing.  this is what u should strive for... 

 

e/

 

@Aerineth(OD) sry didnt read ur post b4 i responded. give me reprocussion if u deem nessissary.

 

Edited by Froggie420(OD)

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