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Okay, I know I don't spend a massive amount of time in OverDosed, nor am I particularly distinguished on the forums here, however, as a long running member of OverDosed, (joined 2005) I have witnessed a great deal of change within this community over the years. I know that OverDosed has taken a turn towards commonality in the effort to stabilize the ever growing population that is OverDosed, but this should not include squads or divisions that are vague, and generally serve no purpose other than to brand a channel in teamspeak dedicated to those who cannot make up their flippin minds about what game to play. Yes I'm talking about the Gamer's Lounge "squad". 

I miss the days when OD took active roles in supporting competitive game play. I miss the days when OD TRIED. We no longer have a competitive platform on any game like we used to with starcraft. OD used to mean something as a clan. We used to have a stake to claim in national and international tournaments, even if we didn't sponsor our players. 

What I would like to see is a continual effort to make OD a place that supports players who want to become professional gamers. A place that allows for strategizing, practicing, and all around teamwork. 

I would like to see OD be worn on someones shirt in an Esport episode. Or on someone at a national or international tournament. The only way to make something like this happen though, requires collaboration from the higher ranked people in this community, but as of right now, I'm only seeing them cater to those who just want to play games for playing games. In houses are not freaking tournaments people.. That's just you practicing with your teammates.

Rant over..

Make OD great again.

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I think you can have it both ways, competitive and more casual. DL used to be that same way, they had some VERY professional Brood War players who would make you cry to your momma, not even lying.

 

It does come down to what the majority of the people want though too, if people aren't any good or don't have time you can't make them get good. The clan would have to change it's entire current philosophy and stop with it's open admissions policy too.

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I don't think they would have to stop their open admissions policy.. There can be room for both, but I think a lot is to do with the idea that What each division and squad is dedicated for is a prime part in how it's run. I mean if everyone is just slumped into categories of what game they play, then we're not finding out which players want to play for real and which players want to just play because that's the game they like. In my opinion a division or squad should be for those who want to play competitively.. Otherwise they can just play in some other channel, and if they want to get serious about the game then they can come apply for those positions under tests. Teamspeak needs to get cleaned up too.

I do think promotions should be more strict though. You shouldn't get promoted just for existing. I think you should get promoted based on your ability in a particular game, and each promotion should only affect each game. Not the community as a whole. Take for instance someone who only played Diablo 2 and worked their way up the ranks to say a general.. Then they apply only what they know about said game upon others and their games.. That is mass confusion and some things just don't apply to other games.

 

 

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Ah ok I misunderstood, I agree there's room for both. It would be interesting to see a more competitive scene around these parts again. I also had an idea for real life marketing and merchandising, but it requires people to get involved and make some time sacrifices. It would have hypothetically made  OD a more common name in the current gaming world. That's the hardest part of getting things done in a clan, nobody is getting paid so you have to rely on good will alone to get things done. 

Edited by AOL
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6 minutes ago, AOL said:

Ah ok I misunderstood, I agree there's room for both. It would be interesting to see a more competitive scene around these parts again. I also had an idea for real life marketing and merchandising, but it requires people to get involved and make some time sacrifices. It would have hypothetically made  OD a more common name in the current gaming world. That's the hardest part of getting things done in a clan, nobody is getting paid so you have to rely on good will alone to get things done. 



This is true, often I've wondered about a possible compensation to those that delve their time into the clan/community.. Especially if it came to merchandising and stuff like that. If we made a solid income say through either donations and or merchandise sales, we definitely would have a better platform to launch from. The problem with this though is Ragnarok is heavily afraid of going down that route due to legal complications? Or so i'm told. Every time I try to talk to Rag about the subject we seem to continually miss each other.

Twitch / Youtube channels need to be revitalized. I've attempted this on my own (Xayj has attempted to a degree as well) but because we don't have a solidified competitive platform, we fail to produce content.
 

For this theory to work, would undoubtedly take some major overhauls to how we run OD, but I mean that's what was done to get it where it is now as well so. To that degree, same could be said for those that changed OD to what it is today for delving their time and effort into the community. The problem is we have too many people who control things that are the docile type. I know Badboi has agreed with me a time or another on this subject, but it's difficult to say truly where his stance lies.

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I understand where you're coming from with your points here @Links(OD). I'm pretty sure we've talked about my desires of wanting to have OD do more than what it is. To be able to bring the OD name into the communities of the world etc... Of course, my idea was to turn OD into a non-profit and go the route of streaming, conventions etc... 

 

In the past when I first was a division leader for heroes. I made a push for our division to have a competitive side. We even started putting together and recruiting for a team. But all of us ended up having issues or obligations outside of OD that took us away from it. 

 

I agree that OD could use with a little change and that things could be done a bit better. Since becoming a general it's been one of the big things I've brought up with some of the higher administration. 

 

This is something that would be great to be brought to a community meeting though as it continues to develop.  

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20 minutes ago, Xayj(OD) said:

In the past when I first was a division leader for heroes. I made a push for our division to have a competitive side. We even started putting together and recruiting for a team. But all of us ended up having issues or obligations outside of OD that took us away from it. 


This is the problem i'm explaining though, the reason it didn't work as well, is because the way that the divisions and system is set up, it only allows for players that want to play casually. We have lost countless amounts of people in OD because they are forced to play with people who don't really care to play well or play competitively. If a division required testing and a driven desire to play competitively among the rest of the people in that division, you would have less people leaving for excuses that take them away from said game, ESPECIALLY if those groups were actively winning and putting a solid effort toward a competitive platform in a tournament setting. 

If someone wants to play casually then they don't have to join the division or squad, they can just go play casually in some other channel. If someone from a competitive division wanted to play casually with other players who want to play casually, there would be nothing stopping them. It's just divisions should require a desire and a will to want to play competitively in my mind. 

 

 

20 minutes ago, Xayj(OD) said:

This is something that would be great to be brought to a community meeting though as it continues to develop.  


While this sounds like a grand idea, often I get the feeling during these meetings, that if you're not an officer or higher, you may be heard, but you are quickly brushed past and moved on to matters that the higher ranking members deem "important", like when is the next drunken rocket league or whether or not there should be some new type of benefit or consequence that only affects higher ranking members. 

To put it frank I think those community meetings are bullshit. There I said it. You just go there and say what you want to say and it's like a therapist.. Thanks for your input, see you next month. That'll be 350.


Also as far as recruitment goes, no one wants to join a community that has no real platform. As of right now we are only able to recruit people that only want to play casually, BECAUSE we don't have a competitive platform.

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I can see where you are coming from when you mention the community meetings, I think with those a lot of the inner politics and social issues of the group as a whole are addressed, you don't usually get a lot of game-related things done in those, but I do think they provide a useful purpose, just in a different way.

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It sounds lije you should find angame and make a division out of it your way no one person nor our policy is stoping you from doing that. So wjy are you not making yhe effort to take a competitive move forward ?

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8 minutes ago, ChrisSpeck(OD) said:

It sounds lije you should find angame and make a division out of it your way no one person nor our policy is stoping you from doing that. So wjy are you not making yhe effort to take a competitive move forward ?

You are missing the point entirely, and also yes the policy does prohibit me from doing certain things especially when regarding monetization or sponsorship. There is no structure in place from OD that allows for a competitive endeavor, such as the ability to create and produce content with the OverDosed moniker for anything other private use.

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We had a similar discussion about this in the Rules Committee board not too long ago, when Overwatch adjusted their rules to lean slightly more towards the competitive atmosphere, only some individuals were saying that supporting competitive play did NOT represent the principles of OD.

 

To save a bit of time I'm going to take a clip of one of my own posts in that conversation which I feel is relevant to this.

 

 

On 2/14/2018 at 7:51 AM, Terra said:

Overdosed is a Gaming Community, but in most every game there are two approaches to gaming. Casual and competitive. Many of you are probably familiar and more comfortable with the casual approach, it tends to be more common as competitive requires a lot more drive. But it would be a mistake to believe that the setting you are more comfortable with is better than the other, both are culturally different but equally valuable forms of gaming, and it would be closed-minded to disregard one simply because it isn't your preference. Holding standards in a competitive game does not automatically make it unfriendly, and aiming for elite status does not automatically mean the participants will have elitist attitudes. The purpose of having an Elite Squad was to better organize a Division that was taking both approaches to different extents, not to exclude a Division from being able to pursue competitive gaming in its entirety.

 

Both casual and competitive approaches have their advantages and disadvantages. One might look at the principle values of our clan, being a fun and friendly gaming community, and understandably think that a casual setting that accepts all members indiscriminately seems to jibe a lot better with it, but that is not actually true. Holding a set of standards does not make the community unfriendly or unwelcoming, but instead can add greater value to being a part of that community itself. This is a big reason we have trial memberships. Nowadays OD has excelled in both the number of Divisions we have, and the number of members we have, out-pacing all of our previous generations. But one thing we lack is the sheer level of success in certain games that some of our preceding generations had. OD used to have expert team players competing in and winning real tournaments and fame, and if we are talking about representing our Clan then it doesn't get much better than that. This type of accomplishment can only come from a strong competitive base for a Division.

Sure, a casual setting is certainly friendly and inviting, it is more likely to grow into a larger group and more likely to attract a greater number of members overall. But it is also more likely to stagnate, its members are more likely to become divided with differing goals and interests or branch out into independent pockets of groups pursuing their own things. Conversely a competitive setting is more likely to attract competitive players, has an increased likelihood of greater achievements in the game they are playing in, and its members tend to be more unified and more likely to continue their drive for as long as the competitive air of the game remains consistent. However standards make recruiting more challenging, competitive groups tend to grow more slowly, and yes there is an increased risk of elitist attitudes developing.

 

 

More to the point of your topic, you feel strongly that Squad and Divisions should be reserved strictly for competitive-driven gaming. But not all games are intended to be competitive games, some are actually built more towards social and communal forms. I would not support removing casual for the sake of competitive any more than I would support removing competitive for the sake of casual. Both are valued and perfectly acceptable forms of playing a game, and both are supported by OD in equal measure. The existence of Divisions or Teamspeak channels that allow for casual gaming don't have any impact on the ability for competitive gaming to develop.

 

What you need for a strong competitive drive is a Squad or Division leader prepared to aim for that kind of goal. Someone dedicated enough to a particular game to be masterful in their own right, and willing to organize teams and the goals of the Division around the objective of being competitive. OD has had such people in the past, but presently we are currently in an era where there is a shortage of them. There could be a variety of reasons for this, but I would say the main reason is simply because we're in a time between such people.

OD has gone through a variety of different generations and eras, each one having their distinguishing points but lacking in other areas. Yes, we have a shortage of competitive-driven leaders at the moment, but we have a lot of website coders compare to previous generations. We have a lot of active Officer and Administrative discussions that the generation prior to this didn't have. We have a lot of Divisions and widespread branching and recruitment. Different from the way things were before, but all things that are valuable and a sign of success and accomplishment in their own right. And all things that benefit OD as a whole.

 

But just because we are currently in a point that doesn't have a lot of competitive gamers doesn't mean we won't in the future. Things always change, and OD always changes, and it would be great if we could support all kinds of gaming so that no matter what type of gamer someone wants to be we have something to offer them. I would say if you feel so strongly about restoring the legacy of OD's success in tournaments and professional teams, then take on the mantle of leadership yourself. Forge your own Division with the intention of being a successful and competitive game, and be the kind of competitive-driven leader that OD needs right now.

 

 

P.S.

Just to clear up a couple other things.

 

- OD does have T-Shirts, thanks in large part to Collin, which members can receive through their donations. And the project for providing them was willingly funded and supported by @R.agnarok(OD)

 

- We have made changes to OD based on the opinions of members in Community meetings, sometimes even right there in the community meeting itself if it is a relatively simple change or request. Those requests that involve a greater degree of changes that we don't individually have the authority to enact have been moved to Admin Meetings as topics of discussion there.

 

In fact there is no request made in a community meeting that has ever been ignored, at least during the community meetings I have been a part of. If an arrangement for a request isn't possible then at the very least the reason it couldn't be done is explained to the individual requesting it, usually in the meeting itself. Obviously we can't accommodate all requests people would like, but we're usually pretty good at explaining the reasons why if we can't.

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Terra as always much to digress and dissect in order to play on your points and ultimately get to an understanding. But here we go ^.^

 

4 minutes ago, Terra said:

More to the point of your topic, you feel strongly that Squad and Divisions should be reserved strictly for competitive-driven gaming. But not all games are intended to be competitive games, some are actually built more towards social and communal forms. I would not support removing casual for the sake of competitive any more than I would support removing competitive for the sake of casual. Both are valued and perfectly acceptable forms of playing a game, and both are supported by OD in equal measure. The existence of Divisions or Teamspeak channels that allow for casual gaming don't have any impact on the ability for competitive gaming to develop.


No one said that we would remove casual game play, and actually I encourage it to be there alongside competitive gameplay, but let's not take away from the fact that there is NO competitive platform so your point is moot in the idea that there is something to take away from competitive gaming. I only propose a structuralized platform in which competitive game play can extend from. The idea that divisions and squads should include casual gameplay is basically an insult to the reason Divisions and squads were originally formed, which was intended for competitive gameplay to begin with. I AM NOT saying that you shouldnt play casually, I am just saying the only real reason to create a division or squad as the terms apply is to be competitive. Casual gameplay should be categorized as something other, possibly such as a Community Moniker, All of which could be placed inside the division headings. When we start creating squads and Divisions deliberately named "Gamer's Lounge", That is not a game that can be competitive or casual. That is just a mesh of multiple other games, and is actually more of a standpoint to your original argument in the idea that you are separating casual play from competitive play.

 

 

10 minutes ago, Terra said:

What you need for a strong competitive drive is a Squad or Division leader prepared to aim for that kinda of goal. Someone dedicated enough to a particular game to be masterful in their own right, and willing to organize teams and the goals of the Division around the objective of being competitive. OD has had such people in the past, but presently we are currently in an era where there is a shortage of them. There could be a variety of reasons for this, but I would say the main reason is simply because we're in a time between such people.


The idea that you think it's just so easy to create a competitive division shows your lack of experience in such a standard. Having 20 players in a division doesn't make it Competitive. Hell having 100 players in a division doesn't make it competitive, it just shows how well you can recruit. Competitive organizations don't require just ONE leader to drive the action, it takes an entire organization to get behind the idea and support the concept that is a competitive gaming platform. This is most often done in the form of sponsorship, but is not limited to such actions. Currently we are run in a community platform, meaning everyone has a stake in what is decided and how each individual has a say in their game, even though some of those individuals don't even play the same game. As I stated earlier, imagine for example someone from another game that is higher rank, automatically trumps someone from another game that is a lower rank, even though their games are not related and yet still have to abide by the same concepts and policies of an overall organization. My idea splits up the roles, essentially allowing for 3 distinct parties of rank growth. First you have the Community role, in which those who dedicate themselves to the well being of the community and creation of justified policies. Competitive Gaming Role in which they help dedicate themselves in an effort to further produce teamwork, competitive play, events, organization, external community presence, and possibly sponsorship and monetization through merchandising or other. A Casual Community Gaming Role, in which they help players who want to join the community and basically are the driving force behind recruiting all players to OverDosed, and potentially helping players realize their potential with what they would like to do as far as playing casually or competitively. We want to produce the concept that OverDosed is a community that allows people to hone their skills and eventually make it to the top of the leaderboards and win tournaments for REAL PRIZES.

 

 

22 minutes ago, Terra said:

OD has gone through a variety of different generations and eras, each one having their distinguishing points but lacking in other areas. Yes, we have a shortage of competitive-driven leaders at the moment, but we have a lot of website coders compare to previous generations.


No offense but if this is true  Then we are failing hard because the website just sucks btw. It's actually worse than the original. (No offense Altros but get on your shit man.) And yes I'll be the one to say it.

 

 

23 minutes ago, Terra said:

But just because we are currently in a point that doesn't have a lot of competitive gamers doesn't mean we won't in the future. Things always change, and OD always changes, and it would be great if we could support all kinds of gaming so that no matter what type of gamer someone wants to be we have something to offer them. I would say if you feel so strongly about restoring the legacy of OD's success in tournaments and professional teams, then take on the mantle of leadership yourself. Forge your own Division with the intention of being a successful and competitive game, and be the kind of competitive-driven leader that OD needs right now.


Again, much of the reason we don't have many competitive gamers, is because we don't have the platform to support their aspirations. AGAIN No one, I repeat, No one. Wants to join a community that doesn't provide a sense of accomplishment as a community or potential to make it in national or international tournaments. Stop thinking small scale, start thinking Professional level. You may think that's out of reach, and that is exactly the problem, because for people who only care about the casual side, have no idea what it means to be on that level. I have seen multiple players leave OD in order to go play in another clan because that clan had more focus on the competitive aspect of their particular game. The closest we got to a competitive platform was Smite, and that took considerable effort from nearly every person in that division, not just one person. And in the end, was still stopped short for the reason that we couldn't progress further competitively because OverDosed does not allow aspects of monetization to sponsor the players in a tournament setting.
 

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57 minutes ago, Terra said:

In fact there is no request made in a community meeting that has ever been ignored, at least during the community meetings I have been a part of. If an arrangement for a request isn't possible then at the very least the reason it couldn't be done is explained to the individual requesting it, usually in the meeting itself. Obviously we can't accommodate all requests people would like, but we're usually pretty good at explaining the reasons why if we can't.

This is highly debatable and I'm pretty sure many would agree with me on this. Of course none would willingly back me here, obviously, but that's because you guys have people afraid to even speak out about crap because they don't want to be kicked out of OD for something stupid and then they can't play with their friends. 

This has happened multiple times in the past.. I mean come on to say this shit doesn't happen is ludicrous and makes you seem like you live in your own little world. Maybe you do, I don't know. Being a commander probably has it's perks no doubt.

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I bet you were never a member of the debate club.  You are argumentative and think that by hammering and bullying you get your point across.  It doesn't work that way.  I may be a new member to the community as of December, but I do firmly believe that if you want something to be done, then YOU, personally get off your butt and start something.  Don't sit here hammering at people who are trying to keep OD going and allowing people who want to be a part of a legit community.  Fine, I get it.  You want to be a professional gamer and reap the financial benefits.  That's all I hear what you want.  Not what you are going to do to effectuate that WANT.  Then I challenge you to step up to the plate.  Canvas the current players.  Find out who wants to commit the amount of time you are talking about in what game and get it going.  Then you recruit other serious players.  You set up events.  You put your money where your comments are.  

 

"End of rant"

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21 minutes ago, Purplez(OD) said:

I bet you were never a member of the debate club.  You are argumentative and think that by hammering and bullying you get your point across.  It doesn't work that way.  I may be a new member to the community as of December, but I do firmly believe that if you want something to be done, then YOU, personally get off your butt and start something.  Don't sit here hammering at people who are trying to keep OD going and allowing people who want to be a part of a legit community.  Fine, I get it.  You want to be a professional gamer and reap the financial benefits.  That's all I hear what you want.  Not what you are going to do to effectuate that WANT.  Then I challenge you to step up to the plate.  Canvas the current players.  Find out who wants to commit the amount of time you are talking about in what game and get it going.  Then you recruit other serious players.  You set up events.  You put your money where your comments are.  

 

"End of rant"

While I appreciate you taking the time to look over all that was said (if you did). While I agree I am being argumentative, it is in retaliation in the effort that this is being regarded as something that is just solved by one person. If you know me then you know the steps that I have taken personally in order to achieve said results, to no avail, much due to the fact of the limitations that I've already mentioned. This is not a new debate, this is age old. We've been discussing this type of thing for years. As for the fact of the people that are "keeping OD going" there are many who believe these same people are the ones killing it. So therefore yes, there can be a bit of hostility, though I wouldn't say I particularly dislike these people on a personal level. I am in no way trying to "reap financial benefits". The idea here is that there is little to no benefactors supporting the clan or overdosed in general. Donations supported to OverDosed are being used to only sustain it, not flourish it. I am not a person looking for a PayDay. I just want to see OD become a place in which professional players can call OD a household brand. If everything you've mentioned could be done by only ONE person then fine.. I would freaking do it. But this is not the case. We live in a real world. Do you think Companies and organizations are accomplished by one person? They might like to think they are, but they are done with the collaboration of MANY. My proposal is to get people together to work together on common goals.. If that isn't want OD wants then so be it.. But someone has to start the thing that brings them all together, and this is how it starts. You'll learn that eventually.. Forums are the lifeblood of OD. (Not something that I like to admit) but it is. So by me getting on here and starting this god awful thread, is me DOING something.

Also if you can't handle arguments that aren't to your liking then obviously you never did well in debate club, and if you did, well it must have been sheltered to all hell.

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Well Links i must say your last response was well thought out and not "bullying" like the others.  Although I don't like the "hints" of secretive "them" holding you back, I must say this is the first I've seen on this forum in my short tenure.  Again, get a like minded group together and start something.  I applaud efforts to keep the forum interesting and lively.  It's the lifeblood of any community.  

 

If you want to be a professional gamer or can find those that want to be that committed, I don't see anything in the rules stopping you.  Good luck in your endeavors.  I will say you will get more support from us "casual players" using the last tone instead of the first one.

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1 minute ago, Dabomb(OD) said:

Overwatch is competitive. Not quite on the level we were when SC was competitive because we had some badass players but we aren't just full of casual gamers.

Absolutely, and I would love if you guys were able to make international tournaments using the OD moniker, but as of right now we don't have a platform that allows competitive players such as yourself to even get close to a professional status. At least you wouldn't be backed by OD anyway. Professional players need sponsorships and OD would be a great addition if we could allow the concept of such an endeavor. THAT is the problem that I'm trying to push. The problem with this is the fact that we are limited to not sell merchandise, and while Collin has T-shirts made (A great start) we can only give them to members of the community; When I ran the twitch channel, I was exclusively told not to open public relations with public donations in the event that it could impose legality issues on Ragnarok's end. This is a problem guys, especially if we were to use those donations to help members obtain games they cannot afford, Especially if a person is regarded as an essential part of a team, but cannot afford say a DLC or something of that nature. Being able to provide members with the necessary equipment and support that a competitive team needs is essential to playing well.

 

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Just now, Links(OD) said:

Absolutely, and I would love if you guys were able to make international tournaments using the OD moniker, but as of right now we don't have a platform that allows competitive players such as yourself to even get close to a professional status. At least you wouldn't be backed by OD anyway. Professional players need sponsorships and OD would be a great addition if we could allow the concept of such an endeavor. THAT is the problem that I'm trying to push. The problem with this is the fact that we are limited to not sell merchandise, and while Collin has T-shirts made (A great start) we can only give them to members of the community; When I ran the twitch channel, I was exclusively told not to open public relations with public donations in the event that it could impose legality issues on Ragnarok's end. This is a problem guys, especially if we were to use those donations to help members obtain games they cannot afford, Especially if a person is regarded as an essential part of a team, but cannot afford say a DLC or something of that nature. Being able to provide members with the necessary equipment and support that a competitive team needs is essential to playing well.

 

I understand what you mean. However at this current moment the community belongs solely to @R.agnarok(OD) and I don't believe he has any intention of making a profit off of donations/sponsorship from outside sources of even from within the community. It takes a lot of work for the head person to run everything including all the tax info and not to mention the licensing varies in every country. I mean if you actually sit down and think about it, it takes a whole lot of time and money. Most people in OD have busy lives outside of OD families, kids, jobs, schooling and careers etc.. Right now we are small scale and what you are talking about would be large scale and it would we would need someone that is A. trusted and B. willing to devote all their time to OD an unbelievable amount of time at that. There would be no compensation for this time and if that person ever got bitter or salty it would become a huge mess and a headache I don't think anyone wants to deal with. On top of it all R.agnarok while he is active I willing to bet he doesn't have that much extra time to devote towards that. 

 

Now something we could possibly discuss if we wanted to move forward with something like this is separating the entities so that it cannot fall back on Overdosed Gaming. Not quite sure how we would have to go about it. But if we wanted to pursue an avenue like you are mentioning then we would have a lot to discuss and etc..   

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Just now, Dabomb(OD) said:

I understand what you mean. However at this current moment the community belongs solely to @R.agnarok(OD) and I don't believe he has any intention of making a profit off of donations/sponsorship from outside sources of even from within the community. It takes a lot of work for the head person to run everything including all the tax info and not to mention the licensing varies in every country. I mean if you actually sit down and think about it, it takes a whole lot of time and money. Most people in OD have busy lives outside of OD families, kids, jobs, schooling and careers etc.. Right now we are small scale and what you are talking about would be large scale and it would we would need someone that is A. trusted and B. willing to devote all their time to OD an unbelievable amount of time at that. There would be no compensation for this time and if that person ever got bitter or salty it would become a huge mess and a headache I don't think anyone wants to deal with. On top of it all R.agnarok while he is active I willing to bet he doesn't have that much extra time to devote towards that. 

 

Now something we could possibly discuss if we wanted to move forward with something like this is separating the entities so that it cannot fall back on Overdosed Gaming. Not quite sure how we would have to go about it. But if we wanted to pursue an avenue like you are mentioning then we would have a lot to discuss and etc..   

This goes back to what I said earlier, I've tried to sit down with Rag and hash some things out, but it also requires more than just me to convince him, I mean if there was a sizeable amount of people who agreed on this I'm sure we would be able to sway his mind. The largest issue I have is the idea that Rag Owns OD... OD never used to be OWNED by anyone, and while he may seem like a person you don't want to fuck with, well I was here when he was just a sergeant, so if you think about it he's no different than any of you. While I appreciate all that he does for OD, maybe its time to become a conglomerate instead of just a one man show.

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I mean at the end of the day we are not failing as a community this is a family driven bond making love growning community that gives ppl a beautiful place to spend time woth others and play games together build real life relationship and everything else

 

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  • Commanders

There seems to be a huge misunderstanding on your part @Links(OD).

 

- Firstly, I don't own OD, I merely hold the accounts needed to administrate it, but the decisions are made as a whole, I don't even take much part of the decisions lately.

 

- OD's money on the paypal account is NOT mine, if I'm asked by our administration to hand it to anything we need, I do it with no questions asked.

 

- The donations we get are not nearly enough to cover for anything else than our expenses, and some of the people that donate in a frequent manner, have expressed to me directly that they donate so OD can keep existing, but they want their money used for that, and only for that.

 

- There was a time where we did not allow sponsors because it just meant to put publicity on our website, and nobody wanted that. I personally have nothing against it. Back then on sc/bw I have done my part to try and push an elite team through the competitive scene so I'm quite familiar with what you are saying, and I agree this community is not fit at all to push that kind of team.

 

Now, let's be realistic, any professional team you see there, is founded by sponsors, or private investments, and I'm not saying a few hundreds. To revamp a website like our own to modern standards and a nice looking interface, I make a living by working on this exact field, I'm a programmer myself and I can tell you, this project would be in the thousands if you were to hire external help. I would personally charge no less than 2k to do this as a job.

 

So, in short, we don't have the founding neither the time to do it ourselves for free. And this has always been the setback, not our ranking, not our structure, not our website, but our lack of income. And this translates that in order to have sponsors, we would need a professional team first and a decent website which they would be comfortable to put their adds on us.

 

We can't force people to donate more, and we don't have enough to pay for the needs you are referring to. While we might have more coders than before, we work on our free time, and for free, I can't demand them to take any more time of their lives for this project. We are currently starting to revamp the website, doing practically a full rewrite and having a new modern template, but this will take some time.

 

If you want to think of a way to get funds, be my guest, I'm open to any suggestions, I'm not limiting anyone, and remember, it's not my decision, you have to convince the whole administration.

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14 minutes ago, R.agnarok(OD) said:

There seems to be a huge misunderstanding on your part @Links(OD).

 

- Firstly, I don't own OD, I merely hold the accounts needed to administrate it, but the decisions are made as a whole, I don't even take much part of the decisions lately.

 

- OD's money on the paypal account is NOT mine, if I'm asked by our administration to hand it to anything we need, I do it with no questions asked.

 

- The donations we get are not nearly enough to cover for anything else than our expenses, and some of the people that donate in a frequent manner, have expressed to me directly that they donate so OD can keep existing, but they want their money used for that, and only for that.

 

- There was a time where we did not allow sponsors because it just meant to put publicity on our website, and nobody wanted that. I personally have nothing against it. Back then on sc/bw I have done my part to try and push an elite team through the competitive scene so I'm quite familiar with what you are saying, and I agree this community is not fit at all to push that kind of team.

 

Now, let's be realistic, any professional team you see there, is founded by sponsors, or private investments, and I'm not saying a few hundreds. To revamp a website like our own to modern standards and a nice looking interface, I make a living by working on this exact field, I'm a programmer myself and I can tell you, this project would be in the thousands if you were to hire external help. I would personally charge no less than 2k to do this as a job.

 

So, in short, we don't have the founding neither the time to do it ourselves for free. And this has always been the setback, not our ranking, not our structure, not our website, but our lack of income. And this translates that in order to have sponsors, we would need a professional team first and a decent website which they would be comfortable to put their adds on us.

 

We can't force people to donate more, and we don't have enough to pay for the needs you are referring to. While we might have more coders than before, we work on our free time, and for free, I can't demand them to take any more time of their lives for this project. We are currently starting to revamp the website, doing practically a full rewrite and having a new modern template, but this will take some time.

 

If you want to think of a way to get funds, be my guest, I'm open to any suggestions, I'm not limiting anyone, and remember, it's not my decision, you have to convince the whole administration.

Hey buddy, long time no chat. But yeah I agree on all of your talking points, and yes in no way did I mean that you OWN OD but apparently many in the community seem to believe you do, and therefore are afraid to talk to you about things, I for one am not afraid and I would love to sit down and talk to you about some stuff if you're willing to hear it out.. That apparently is the primary problem is people don't seem to have a communication line with you when it comes to the finances but automatically assume they know what you want to be done and use you as the reason behind their reasoning. As for the website, I know it can be costly, and I know you'd rather have it done internally, This is obviously the most economically sound thing to do, however, It's been this way for over a year, and I think by what you said, it needs some work still. I too am a programmer, and while I'm not extensively prone to web development, I can make some pretty decent crap myself, and I don't even know PHP. (I dont want to work on the website, it was just an example of the many things that still need to be done.)

So hey man, I would like to talk to you about possible avenues in order to get this going. But let's set some time out for this to do that.

Also Im not saying forcing people to donate more, but there is obviously a lot of talent and avenues that we could explore. People want to help, they just aren't exactly given the access or the direction they need to get the stuff done.

All in short, let's put some freaking pride into OD and get stuff done.

I know the money is a problem, so let's move toward something that can help us generate some.
 

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3 minutes ago, Links(OD) said:

Hey buddy, long time no chat. But yeah I agree on all of your talking points, and yes in no way did I mean that you OWN OD but apparently many in the community seem to believe you do, and therefore are afraid to talk to you about things, I for one am not afraid and I would love to sit down and talk to you about some stuff if you're willing to hear it out.. That apparently is the primary problem is people don't seem to have a communication line with you when it comes to the finances but automatically assume they know what you want to be done and use you as the reason behind their reasoning. As for the website, I know it can be costly, and I know you'd rather have it done internally, This is obviously the most economically sound thing to do, however, It's been this way for over a year, and I think by what you said, it needs some work still. I too am a programmer, and while I'm not extensively prone to web development, I can make some pretty decent crap myself, and I don't even know PHP. (I dont want to work on the website, it was just an example of the many things that still need to be done.)

So hey man, I would like to talk to you about possible avenues in order to get this going. But let's set some time out for this to do that.

Also Im not saying forcing people to donate more, but there is obviously a lot of talent and avenues that we could explore. People want to help, they just aren't exactly given the access or the direction they need to get the stuff done.

All in short, let's put some freaking pride into OD and get stuff done.

I know the money is a problem, so let's move toward something that can help us generate some.
 

 

I'm always available on OD's discord if you want to talk, but like I told you, the decision is not mine, it's OD's decision and even if I agree with your ideas, you would still have to present them to the rest. So, if you got anything in mind, it might be best for you to post it here, still you are always free to contact me anytime.

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I have typed and retyped this reply going on four times now.  I have been working on this for almost two hours straight and while I am sure there are mistakes, I am going to go ahead and post it:

 

I want to start off by saying that I see where you are coming from.  I was here, and directly in the middle of the ODSC2 competitive push.  At the time, ODSC2 was represented on the website by a block of 60 players, the majority had nothing to do with their competitive side.  In-game, ODSC2 had close to 200 active players, top-heavy ranging from Bronze-Grand Master.  @Aerineth(OD) and I joined ODSC2 to help both sides adapt and fully integrate with one another.  The majority of the competitive players didn't understand DSL or feel it was necessary to take part in the greater OD community when the OD community were getting upset that ODSC2 wasn't held accountable to the same rules that everyone else had to follow.  In-game, the ODSC2 community was thriving, and when I joined, just showing an interest in SC2 had Master and Grand Master level players volunteering and eventually spending time with me teaching me how to properly play with their own tactics.  It was pretty fun being mentored by players that just wanted me to get the enjoyment out of the game that they did.

 

The competitive ODSC2 group were winning tournaments left, right and center and had a strong desire to send people to the national level.  To that end, we started looking for sponsors for them, I personally invested days worth of time reaching out to companies and typically receiving generally negative replies, or generic "Thank you for reaching out to us, however we identify potential sponsorship deals on our own." ... etc.  For an outside company to come in and give Overdosed a once-over without understanding the immense diversity of our history, or what has had to come to pass in order to make OD what it is today, and to have them judge us based on what little they see in a short time-frame, its very hard to do.  Ironically, it typically takes money in the first place to get sponsored with more money.  The Website would need an entire overhaul, this project is currently being undertaken, but as all of us web developers are volunteers, we can only work so fast.  The name "Overdosed" is also a hard sell for a company looking to sponsor a team.  Even put as "Overdosed on Gaming", the negative connotations are still there.  Some of the ODSC2 leadership at the time did not understand why it was so hard to find sponsors, they did not understand that  "we can advertise them on the website and on the uniforms and equipment they are sponsoring us for."  was not a lucrative deal for an outside company stepping in.

 

I think that OD could reach the point where it would be ideal for a company or companies to step in and sponsor a team, but I don't think it can reach that point quickly.  The community as a whole has some changes that I think need to happen before a push into esports can really be made seriously, especially on a national, much less on an international level.

 

  • The website needs serious updating to modern design and programming standards.  This is a project that we, as web developers, have just started to knock out.  While it has not really publicly been stated, we are now in the process of re-writing everything on the website, both for ease of code readability and for optimization of functionality.  This will not be a fast process and will take place on top of any additions being made over the never several months and longer.  Many systems will most likely be updated without anyone even knowing the changes have happened.  A big part of this will be adding support for a templating system which will make moving the website over to a modern theme, and eventually changing the theme a much, much easier undertaking than what the process involves right now.
  • DSL needs to be re-evaluated.  I completely understand where DSL originated and why it was important when OD started, even going through the years.  However, I don't think DSL should be a requirement for membership or even advancement up to a certain point so long as a member is still active in the game(s) they play.  I do still think it is important for leadership to need to login and check up on everything though.  This was a major point of contention with ODSC2 Competitive and the reason why the vast majority of members were never added to the website.  It could be argued that a competitive team has no need to login to the website when everything they need to compete is right in-front of them in-game and they are still using community VOI.  But should that mean that they aren't members of OD?  I don't think it should.
  • Donations alone aren't going to do it for esports, and they shouldn't anyways.  Its very expensive to send a team or even a single player to a tournament.  Many of these tournaments have fees that much be paid that can be in the thousands of dollars alone, and that does not include air fare, accommodations and per diem expenses.  That is on top of a player or team needing to qualify in the first place.  It can easily cost $3k - $4k to send a single player, much more for an entire team to some national competitions, its not cheap and it will not be easy getting that kind of money.
  • Realistically, I think the competitive team capable of qualifying for these events needs to come and be at the level before the sponsors will even be an option.  But the website, and OD as a brand need their overhaul before we are going to be attractive to potential sponsors.  Its a catch 22, and it all revolves around money and time.

I don't honestly see anything in OD policy that is stopping you, or anyone else from starting a competitive group and enforcing stricter policy within that group right now.  I think the current block would come when it was time to push yourselves as an esports level team.  When it comes time to sponsors, you are welcome to try, but again, I think the website overhaul needs to happen and some policy change with it that would make the community as a whole a more user-friendly experience need to be brought into effect before you will have a serious shot at finding sponsors for us.

 

By all means though, if you want to look for sponsors, I have experience doing so for local sports teams (both local and state/national level sponsors) and would be more than happy to spend some time helping you find them.

 

Just because the squads and divisions that we have now are primarily casual focused, does not mean that new squads and divisions cannot be competitive.  It also doesn't mean that existing squads or divisions have to be one or the other, casual or competitive.  Players do not have to be separated to be casual or competitive, even at a professional level, though that seems to be how things are done right now.  Have a Division Leader for Casual play and a Division Leader for Competitive play, if that is what it takes.  Correct me if I am wrong, but this is what Elite Teams are for, the competitive aspect of a game, where the requirements to be 'Elite' are as strict as the team needs them to be.

 

7 hours ago, Links(OD) said:
7 hours ago, Xayj(OD) said:

In the past when I first was a division leader for heroes. I made a push for our division to have a competitive side. We even started putting together and recruiting for a team. But all of us ended up having issues or obligations outside of OD that took us away from it. 


This is the problem i'm explaining though, the reason it didn't work as well, is because the way that the divisions and system is set up, it only allows for players that want to play casually. We have lost countless amounts of people in OD because they are forced to play with people who don't really care to play well or play competitively. If a division required testing and a driven desire to play competitively among the rest of the people in that division, you would have less people leaving for excuses that take them away from said game, ESPECIALLY if those groups were actively winning and putting a solid effort toward a competitive platform in a tournament setting. 

If someone wants to play casually then they don't have to join the division or squad, they can just go play casually in some other channel. If someone from a competitive division wanted to play casually with other players who want to play casually, there would be nothing stopping them. It's just divisions should require a desire and a will to want to play competitively in my mind. 

 

Squads and Divisions are ways to show both that a member plays the game and that the community is supporting the game.  You can make an Elite Team, get Elite Team channels and set policy for that Elite Team that is as strict as you want it to be.  You can then grow that elite team to any size you want, so long as everyone is held to the same policy for joining.  Then, if that elite team becomes the majority of the division, then are you not a Competitive focused division?  You would still have casual players, but the people who want to be truly competitive would be striving for a spot on the Elite Team for their game.

 

7 hours ago, Links(OD) said:
7 hours ago, Xayj(OD) said:

This is something that would be great to be brought to a community meeting though as it continues to develop.  


While this sounds like a grand idea, often I get the feeling during these meetings, that if you're not an officer or higher, you may be heard, but you are quickly brushed past and moved on to matters that the higher ranking members deem "important", like when is the next drunken rocket league or whether or not there should be some new type of benefit or consequence that only affects higher ranking members. 

To put it frank I think those community meetings are bullshit. There I said it. You just go there and say what you want to say and it's like a therapist.. Thanks for your input, see you next month. That'll be 350.

 

I don't know how community meetings have been recently, but the one I will be hosting will follow round table format.  Rank is set aside at the door, the agenda to be discussed to published prior to the meeting starting, everyone has the right to nominate and vote for the topics for that agenda.  If I see a topic dragging, I will step in and push the meeting along.  Everyone, from the newest member to the longest tenured Commander will have to request the floor if they want to speak up, and any topic is open for discussion, be it relating to a specific game, or if it relates to the community as a whole.

 

Four years ago, the last time I hosted one of these meeting, change was made to policy immediately within the meeting, it went live right in the middle of the meeting after a meeting-wide vote.  This was the DSL change by the way, allowing Enlisted and Warrant Officers more leeway than just 7 days, I presented this change and pushed it through to vote, and it went into effect during the meeting.  Now, change appears much easier to bring about than it was four years ago.  The "power" focus in OD has been trickling down the chain a lot.  The introduction of Administration meetings, instead of just General meetings is tribute to that.  The Rules and Regulations committee is another tribute.  The idea behind the community meeting is to let anyone voice their opinion or suggest change in a forum that most of the leadership is usually in attendance for, live, instead of through a forum post or going to a leader and having them pitch the idea in a higher-up-the-chain meeting.  You, and every other member are more than welcome to come and express any opinion you have, on any topic that will end up on the agenda.  This topic could very well end up on the agenda, we won't know until it comes closer to the meeting time.

 

5 hours ago, Links(OD) said:
5 hours ago, Terra said:

OD has gone through a variety of different generations and eras, each one having their distinguishing points but lacking in other areas. Yes, we have a shortage of competitive-driven leaders at the moment, but we have a lot of website coders compare to previous generations.


No offense but if this is true  Then we are failing hard because the website just sucks btw. It's actually worse than the original. (No offense Altros but get on your shit man.) And yes I'll be the one to say it.

 

Now that I have addressed your other points, I have to include this because honestly, I find it damn offensive.  Every web developer we have now is a volunteer, they voluntarily give up time they could be doing other things or relaxing to navigate the jungle that is the OD website code-wise right now in order to fix bugs and add features.  We are aware that the website is lacking right now, and all of us are working on fixing it.  But there is nothing stopping you from learning PHP and Javascript and pitching in yourself, other than the fact that you have stated that you "do not want to."  If you don't want to step up to the plate and help, you honestly have no right to criticize the people who do volunteer their time, or to tell people to get on their shit.  All of us web devs have full time jobs, we get off of those jobs and want to relax and game just as much as the next guy, but instead volunteer some of our free time towards working on the website.  I enjoy fixing bugs and adding features, I enjoy watching people use features that I have added or enjoying the small quality of life changes that go un-noticed by most.  But the OD website is my spare-time project.  I need time to relax and unwind just as much as the next guy.  Terra is also right, we have more developers now at the same time than we have ever had in the past, as far as I am aware, and we have the capacity to effect change much faster than we have ever had in the past.

 

I'm sorry, but damn, I find it offensive and extremely disrespectful when someone who has no idea the amount of time and work it takes to overhaul the beast that is OD's website steps in and says it sucks, telling our developers to get on their shit when they themselves have no desire to pitch in towards solving the problem.

 

 

1 hour ago, Links(OD) said:

This goes back to what I said earlier, I've tried to sit down with Rag and hash some things out, but it also requires more than just me to convince him, I mean if there was a sizeable amount of people who agreed on this I'm sure we would be able to sway his mind. The largest issue I have is the idea that Rag Owns OD... OD never used to be OWNED by anyone, and while he may seem like a person you don't want to fuck with, well I was here when he was just a sergeant, so if you think about it he's no different than any of you. While I appreciate all that he does for OD, maybe its time to become a conglomerate instead of just a one man show.

 

I was speaking with Xayj about this the other day.  I personally find humor when R.ag is voted most Ominous member, but also am saddened everytime I see it.  R.agnarok is one of the friendliest people in the community, hands down.  For as long as I have known him, he has always shown everyone the respect due to them as a person and while our schedules may not mix, he always takes the time to respond to any topics brought up for conversation with him.

 

While he is the name on the accounts for the domain, TS3/IPB licenses etc.  The entire community contributing together has made OD into what it is today.  From the Administration who handles day-to-day matters, down to the members that only care about gaming or socializing, OD is made what it is by the community.

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