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Opal(OD)

does R+R do anything?

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I have asked at least a dozen times for help recruiting. I mentioned in the admin meeting I needed them to do anything to help as well as have had several high rank officers tell me they would help and precede to never be heard from again. I was already struggling to keep motivated with being the only recruiter and also be the only admin with a 60+ hour a week job, but now that I am watching members that I have recruited change main game and am getting tilted, people are so willing to take members from struggling divisions but are so unwilling to help them.

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To answer the topic headline, yes. The R + R Squad does do things to try and help recruitment and retention of members. We create activities to try and promote multi-division interactions between members, and do our best to recruit new members in other divisions from our respective mains. You can look up the updates from the past *roughly 10 months' admin meetings, and you can read what R+R Squad has done so far, and what plans are in the making, if you wish to learn more.

 

I do realize that you have asked in the last admin meeting for assistance in recruiting for  your starcraft division, and we haven't really had a chance to help due to either long working hours in real life, or a lack of having the game to begin with (it is actually quite difficult to recruit new members from a game you don't have, and you are not the only admin that works long hours, as I personally worked 70 hours last mon-sat, and have already put in 40 hours in the past 3 days! Owning your own business takes a LOT of extra hours).  That said, nobody can control members that come and go from your division, be it from personal differences, lack of interest in the game, boredom, etc. It is up to YOU, as the Division Leader, to try and make your division as welcoming as possible, and come up with fun activities for your members, be it a division tournament, giveaway, etc., to try and keep your members engaged. There will always be recruits that once their eyes are opened to all the different games we play as a community, that will go from game to game, switching their main each time. This is unavoidable in a community such as ours. Now that quarter-end is over, I personally will have a little more free time, and will look into purchasing the Starcraft game that you play, and will try my hand at recruiting for it, but as many other division leads will tell you, leading a division often means being the only one recruiting for it, until you are able to find another that plays the game regularly and is interested in the community so much that he/she wants to recruit for it.

 

*If you have someone in mind that is interested in recruiting, but need help getting them set up, just message me, and I will be happy to help out! 

 

Thank you for reaching out to us, @Opal(OD), and thank you for your patience ;) 

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You don't need the game to get access to general chat and arcade, you can get the free version and have access to the main methods to recruit. I appreciate the help greatly. I understand that you guys also work just have been thoroughly tilted by some of the things going on in OD recently.

 

Thanks Compfreak,

Opal

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When you first approached me about trying to make SC2 a Division, in my very first post to you Opal I said the following:

 

On 7/25/2017 at 3:01 PM, Terra said:

Starcraft 2 was once the best division in the Clan, but since then it has become infamously difficult to revive. If you want to try your hand at rebuilding it, then I'm perfectly willing to give you what you need to try, but you should be prepared to put a lot of hard work into it. For any Squad to become a Division it requires 110% effort on the part of the leader to make it happen, but this is especially true for SC2.

 

Speaking from the perspective of a person who has made Squads into Divisions before, it's great when there are people willing to help you recruit and organize it, but it's also rare. More often than not the leader is the one who has to put 99% of the effort in, especially at the start. A Squad/Division tends to take after its leader, and if you are putting in the hard work to make things happen and to help the members of your game then eventually your members will start to follow suit. But everything begins and ends with the leader, and the responsibility of a Division falls entirely on its Division Leaders. No one else is responsible for ensuring the well-being of their Division, not even the R&R Squad. You have to be the one that sets the example, who leads the charge, who makes it work. If members are leaving your Division then you need to make it more fun and interesting so that people stay. I did tell you it was going to be hard.

 

That said...

 

3 hours ago, CompFreak(OD) said:

I do realize that you have asked in the last admin meeting for assistance in recruiting for  your starcraft division, and we haven't really had a chance to help due to either long working hours in real life, or a lack of having the game to begin with (it is actually quite difficult to recruit new members from a game you don't have, and you are not the only admin that works long hours, as I personally worked 70 hours last mon-sat, and have already put in 40 hours in the past 3 days! Owning your own business takes a LOT of extra hours).

 

The R&R Squad is a commitment you made, you proposed this idea and said "I will use this to better OD". You don't get to renegade on that commitment now by saying you are too busy to fulfill it. If you are too busy to fulfill your responsibilities then drop the responsibilities and either hand the Squad over to someone else or disband it, but as long as it exists that is a commitment you agreed to take on, and you have to be true to that commitment.

 

If you'll pardon me for speaking plainly but Opal isn't the only one who has questioned whether the R&R Squad is making a difference, I've been wondering the same thing myself for about a couple months now. In fact I've looked up the recruitment records of the R&R Squad members and in the past three months the R&R Squad as a whole has only recruited 6 members for Divisions that weren't their own, and 5 of those were just from Bedr. In fact only Bedr and pjpotter could be considered active recruiters at all, whether it be their own Division or otherwise, and if you take Bedr out of the equation entirely then the R&R Squad has only recruited one member for another Division EVER.

Opal is responsible for the success of Starcraft 2, I'll make that clear enough, but the truth is I wouldn't advise him to rely on the R&R Squad to help with recruitment either way because the R&R Squad is wholly unreliable when it comes to recruitment help.

 

And your front on the Retention end isn't much better. I've been to the Admin Meetings and I've heard your monthly updates that basically say "The clan is holding strong at 366 members still", and that is roughly the update you've given every single month. And yes, we are holding at 350+ members, but I haven't seen anything to give me reason to believe that the R&R Squad is the reason why, in fact I have a strong suspicion that if we were to remove the R&R Squad we'd still be holding over 350+ members. You could say that the D&D groups that Xayj put together for a while was the work of the R&R Squad, but I'm actually inclined to believe that he would have done that anyway. There was no planning in the R&R Squad board for an event, no one proposed the idea of a D&D group for discussion, Xayj put that together on his own, and to me that means the credit should go to Xayj entirely, not the R&R Squad. All you can really bring to the table is the Cards Against Humanity night, in which case you might as well just call this the Cards Against Humanity Squad. But again, if you ask me, it would just be better to take the R&R Squad out of it entirely and give full credit to you because you could still run it just as easily even if the R&R Squad wasn't a thing.

 

When you take that into consideration, it's not surprising that Opal has put to question your Squad, it was inevitable that someone was going to question it sooner or later. We need to see some *real* evidence of the R&R Squad at work, we need to see the R&R Squad doing things and planning things that make a difference, that make the Clan better, and not just coming to the table every Admin Meeting and pretending that the Clan being successful is the same as the R&R Squad being successful. Otherwise, and I'll give you forewarning now, I will eventually request that the R&R Squad be disbanded due to inactivity.

 

 

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Well I must say I was teasing comp last night about this and I have also agreed to help comp in some recruitment efforts for the R&R Squad. I think it could be a betterment to the community but I also think it hasn't done diddly squat recently but that also is part to blame on every member of the R&R squad not actively participating in it. Which in that case I think Comp should reach out to each member and ask them if they are even still interested in being a part of it. If not try and find new blood and if you cannot. Then disband it. Find yourself a reliable XO and become a more active leader on this front. I shall let the members of the squad speak for themselves but to my knowledge  the only person that has been coming up with ideas is PJPotter that is not to say others haven't been working on stuff but hes the only one I have seen actively asking people for participation which he hasn't had to much luck with.

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1 hour ago, Dabomb(OD) said:

Well I must say I was teasing comp last night about this and I have also agreed to help comp in some recruitment efforts for the R&R Squad. I think it could be a betterment to the community but I also think it hasn't done diddly squat recently but that also is part to blame on every member of the R&R squad not actively participating in it. Which in that case I think Comp should reach out to each member and ask them if they are even still interested in being a part of it. If not try and find new blood and if you cannot. Then disband it. Find yourself a reliable XO and become a more active leader on this front. I shall let the members of the squad speak for themselves but to my knowledge  the only person that has been coming up with ideas is PJPotter that is not to say others haven't been working on stuff but hes the only one I have seen actively asking people for participation which he hasn't had to much luck with.

My luck doesn't mean much. Having a clan that's together with over 350 members is an impressive feat, but trying to get them all join in one, singular cause or activity is just down right impossible. Not everyone is going to want to play CAH, or going to want to learn about others through some icebreaker challenge. Some people solely care about gaming with others within their division. For example, now that I am at college, all of us living in my dorm have a great variety of freedom. The effort it takes to get a group of 10 or 15 people to go out and do something together that's not mandatory is simply too much. I managed to do it once, and even then, it was barely a third of my local pod, and probably will never happen again. Furthermore, it took a long time to build the Diablo 3 squad into a division, even with the help and overwhelming support of Hari and TypeReal. Think about it, each member is going to want to do their own thing, or follow one who seems to have a good idea, but only for so long. So I understand your struggle for keeping your division alive. It will take some time to recover what's lost, but keep your head up. While yes we should be active recruiters, I've only had 9 recruits, but I've had many trials fail because they didn't like the DSL rule. 

 

Currently I don't have enough space on my computer to download sc2, nor the time to play it. But remember, if you give someone a fish, they have food for the night, but if you teach someone to fish, they will always be able to get food. Similarly, I can help train recruiters for you if you'd like. Since you have a very busy work week, point any sc2 members, or any clan member that wants to recruit to my direction. That way there is more self sufficiency in the division system. The R & R squad is meant to help in recruiting, but not replace or takeover recruiting for any one division or squad (besides the R&R squad itself). While I understand circumstances can be unfair, what goes around, comes around. If you keep working hard, which I'm sure you will be, then people will come. It takes time and patience. I am rooting for you 100%, and I believe you can keep the SC2 division alive. Keep your head up, the fruits of your labor will come!

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2 hours ago, Dabomb(OD) said:

Well I must say I was teasing comp last night about this and I have also agreed to help comp in some recruitment efforts for the R&R Squad. I think it could be a betterment to the community but I also think it hasn't done diddly squat recently but that also is part to blame on every member of the R&R squad not actively participating in it. Which in that case I think Comp should reach out to each member and ask them if they are even still interested in being a part of it. If not try and find new blood and if you cannot. Then disband it. Find yourself a reliable XO and become a more active leader on this front. I shall let the members of the squad speak for themselves but to my knowledge  the only person that has been coming up with ideas is PJPotter that is not to say others haven't been working on stuff but hes the only one I have seen actively asking people for participation which he hasn't had to much luck with.

 

I take insult to that dabomb :p lol. I come up with new R&R ideas all the time. I'm even beta testing an idea right now that I've pitched to terra on a small scale in my division right now. As far as recruitment goes, yes the R&R squad as a whole has not done a lot aside from a couple members. Going into it I didn't plan on personally doing a lot of recruiting. I planned on trying to work on retention and the secret third R reclamation. Which is where my current reward system project comes in and I've recently gotten 1-2 members to come back to the clan. I can't say that the squad is perfect. Or has the most active recruiters throughout the clan. But, individually we've all done some good. If people would rather give individual credit instead of give the credit to the squad. That's fine too. We all worked hard to accomplish what we do in OD on a daily basis. If the squad ends up being dismembered I don't believe any of us will stop doing what we do.We just won't have a group to claim our efforts to.  

 

Now, @Opal(OD). Regarding recruitment in SC2. I can't say that I personally have tried to put any of my own man hours into recruiting for your game. But, I've had a few sit downs with coolbeans when he came to me and asked how he can start recruiting for your division and asked for pointers. I went over every trick and method I've ever used since I've touched a gaming community. Will this make him successful? I don't know. But, I do know you have at least one other member in your division that wants to make sure you try and get some fresh blood into SC2. I hope the time i spent talking to him ends up helping. 

Edited by Xayj(OD)

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Well, this began as a man asking for help and now ALL I see is questioning his status as a division leader. Opal is doing the hardest job of a leader building up members and keeping them in the clan, does not help when 8-10 members are taken from 1 div to another and then to see bragging about oh we took these members and ha ha,( I wont name names but dont push me to) As Im not allowed to diablo for a period of a couple weeks doctors orders I will be assisting opal in revitalizing OD SC I will be still be in leadership with pj over d3 but taking more an admin approach as my tendons are fucked right now, Me and PJ did great things with Diablo 3 a cursed division some said so I look forward to the challenge at hand and bringing us one division fuller as a clan and seriously this Drama is fucking childish behind back talking I wont take part in any of it NOR will it be tolerated in the Diablo 3 teamspeak channel. Lets move on take a cigarette, joint , coffee , kill a small animal what ever tickles your fancy and GET TO THE REAL problem which is helping a division retain it status. The more distance you put between divisions the weaker the community

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I have had to build my division 3 times over as people either leave to another division and start talking shit about me, none of them are true after having some very long talks and forum posts I feel like my standing was fairly clear, or they get mad that people are talking shit about me behind my back and leave because OD is being a toxic community. I have kept most of these members in my friends list to game with but they refuse to be involved in OD after the community started to become toxic and showed such heavy favoritism to a few members in the clan who got a free pass to do and say anything while the rest of us have to walk on eggshells around them. I have been giving 110% to my division but have leeches who take members then go brag about it to other community leaders, also keep in mind I had posted that I have had a lot of IRL drama going on right now with having to go to court and see lawyers on top of a 60+ hour work week. I just want to know that when I am told that people will start helping me recruit, not only for my division keep in mind, they will do so. I get that we all have IRL on our plates but I would like to know that people have earned their rank that they were not just kissing ass to get there and then stop doing anything entirely. After talking with coolbeans he said that Xayj had done very little to actually teach him to recruit and had not ever set him to be a recruiter, I had to get Terra to do that yesterday as well as walk coolbeans through the process of recruiting. The fact that someone in the RECRUITING and retention squad has 2 recruits in a full year should be addressed, I get not wanting to recruit but that comes with being a leader of the R+R squad.

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1 hour ago, Opal(OD) said:

I have had to build my division 3 times over as people either leave to another division and start talking shit about me, none of them are true after having some very long talks and forum posts I feel like my standing was fairly clear, or they get mad that people are talking shit about me behind my back and leave because OD is being a toxic community. I have kept most of these members in my friends list to game with but they refuse to be involved in OD after the community started to become toxic and showed such heavy favoritism to a few members in the clan who got a free pass to do and say anything while the rest of us have to walk on eggshells around them. I have been giving 110% to my division but have leeches who take members then go brag about it to other community leaders, also keep in mind I had posted that I have had a lot of IRL drama going on right now with having to go to court and see lawyers on top of a 60+ hour work week. I just want to know that when I am told that people will start helping me recruit, not only for my division keep in mind, they will do so. I get that we all have IRL on our plates but I would like to know that people have earned their rank that they were not just kissing ass to get there and then stop doing anything entirely. After talking with coolbeans he said that Xayj had done very little to actually teach him to recruit and had not ever set him to be a recruiter, I had to get Terra to do that yesterday as well as walk coolbeans through the process of recruiting. The fact that someone in the RECRUITING and retention squad has 2 recruits in a full year should be addressed, I get not wanting to recruit but that comes with being a leader of the R+R squad.

 

 I was not made aware by coolbeans that he didn't have the power to recruit. He only came to me asking about advice on how to recruit. Not only did i spend two different occasions talking with him about recruiting. But, I literally gave him a step by step guide with pictures on how to recruit and walked him through it. The only thing I could have done more than that with the man would have been to get on SC2 myself and literally show him how to try and recruit someone. 

 

Now, if there's an actual problem you have with me beyond me apparently not doing very much to help cool beans. I'd happily sit down and talk to you about it. 

Edited by Xayj(OD)

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6 hours ago, Dabomb(OD) said:

 Which in that case I think Comp should reach out to each member and ask them if they are even still interested in being a part of it. If not try and find new blood and if you cannot. 

If only we had some new blood in the clan trying to make a difference. 

 

 

2 hours ago, Opal(OD) said:

 After talking with coolbeans he said that Xayj had done very little to actually teach him to recruit and had not ever set him to be a recruiter, I had to get Terra to do that yesterday as well as walk coolbeans through the process of recruiting. 

 

1 hour ago, Xayj(OD) said:

 

 I was not made aware by coolbeans that he didn't have the power to recruit. He only came to me asking about advice on how to recruit. Not only did i spend two different occasions talking with him about recruiting. But, I literally gave him a step by step guide with pictures on how to recruit and walked him through it. The only thing I could have done more than that with the man would have been to get on SC2 myself and literally show him how to try and recruit someone. 

 

 

This sounds like a problem of communication.  I feel that it can easily be fixed.  It has involved multiple members and now people are heated over the situation.  We just need to simmer down on both sides.  

 

 

Here is the deal.  We are all playing on the same team.  Last time I checked in the mirror, the back of my jersey says "OverDosed" and across my forhead reads "OD 4 LYFE."   I don't know if you all bleed light blue, but last time I checked I was actually bleeding red it was a bad time....BUT that's besides the point.

 

Situation: Opal is asking if R+R actually helps.

Answer: Terra has given the numbers, yet correlation is not causation.  

Resolution: We need to take the good things, no matter who did them, organized them what have you, and throw out the bad.  We also need more active people in R+R, so lets start there.  You hit someone a lot harder when the sock is full of rocks, instead of empty.  (Metaphor saying that R+R will do more with more members available.)

 

 

Conclusion:  We are all OD. We all need to make a conscious effort to not be toxic. Have a candid conversation with the person about said attitude.  A lot can be gained from just talking to someone about the issues you have with them.  Not accusing them, not yelling at them, talking with them. I suggest a book called Radical Candor, it has helped me immensely. 

 

Xayj your one of my favorites here at OD.  Keep being cool.  Opal we don't know each other well, but right before this post I was spurred to want to go play some SC2, and trying to recruit.  After this post I want to do that even more.  I'm here for ya bro. :) 

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Supreme basically gave the message I would have said. Let's not degenerate this into a mob of people pointing fingers at each other, if you have an issue with something an individual person did or didn't do, then talk to them about it or, at the very least, bring your concerns to a ranking member.

 

There are a lot of things that could have been better, but unfortunately what happened, happened. The question that needs to be addressed is "What needs to be done now?". Both the SC2 and the R&R groups need to identify the problems they are having, figure out why they are happening, and put together a plan for resolving it. In SC2's case, there has been an issue with toxicity and people leaving, so the toxic members need to be identified, their problem needs to be addressed, and an agreement needs to be worked out with them so that the toxicity stops. Or they need to be purged from the community if they are unwilling to. The members who are leaving the Division should be asked what happened that caused them to lose interest, and efforts should be made to rekindle their interest based on what they felt was lacking.

In the R&R Squad's case, there are issues with people finding time to recruit and with putting together events. The Squad needs to be organized, it needs to re-check its members to find out who is available and willing to recruit, and for when and which divisions. It needs to build upon the ideas of events *together*, not leaving it solely to individual people. It can test those events as a group themselves, and if they are fun they can collectively spread the word and encourage other members to participate.

 

Those are the priorities that should be focused on. Any post, statement, or action that isn't productively moving in the direction of one of those priorities serves no purpose and is a wasted effort.

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19 minutes ago, SupremeJester said:

If only we had some new blood in the clan trying to make a difference. 

 

 

 

 

This sounds like a problem of communication.  I feel that it can easily be fixed.  It has involved multiple members and now people are heated over the situation.  We just need to simmer down on both sides.  

 

 

Here is the deal.  We are all playing on the same team.  Last time I checked in the mirror, the back of my jersey says "OverDosed" and across my forhead reads "OD 4 LYFE."   I don't know if you all bleed light blue, but last time I checked I was actually bleeding red it was a bad time....BUT that's besides the point.

 

Situation: Opal is asking if R+R actually helps.

Answer: Terra has given the numbers, yet correlation is not causation.  

Resolution: We need to take the good things, no matter who did them, organized them what have you, and throw out the bad.  We also need more active people in R+R, so lets start there.  You hit someone a lot harder when the sock is full of rocks, instead of empty.  (Metaphor saying that R+R will do more with more members available.)

 

 

Conclusion:  We are all OD. We all need to make a conscious effort to not be toxic. Have a candid conversation with the person about said attitude.  A lot can be gained from just talking to someone about the issues you have with them.  Not accusing them, not yelling at them, talking with them. I suggest a book called Radical Candor, it has helped me immensely. 

 

Xayj your one of my favorites here at OD.  Keep being cool.  Opal we don't know each other well, but right before this post I was spurred to want to go play some SC2, and trying to recruit.  After this post I want to do that even more.  I'm here for ya bro. :) 

 

I'm not at all saying that Opal is wrong for asking if the squad has actually been helping on the recruitment side of things. I personally can't speak on that. As I said, I decided to focus my efforts elsewhere. 

 

Terra did in bring facts in the ways of raw data to the table to prove the squad as a whole hasn't done a lot for the community as a whole. But, individually a handful of the members have been doing things to improve the community across the board. 

 

I personally harbor no hatred towards anyone in this thread. Nor do I wish any bad doings on anyone here nor their respective divisions. I just wanna put that out there. My goal is and always will be to further the community as a whole and strengthen every division if possible. 

 

Now, that all said. I will be taking a step back from the R&R squad. As I touched on in my generals eval, I want to start focusing more heavily on projects that I truly love. While I believe the squad can do great things if it were put to good use. I now have my own division to worry about. On top of my obligations to release at least 1 interview per quarter as I promised I would start doing. 

 

 

@SupremeJester Thanks, you're pretty darn awesome too ;). 

 

 

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25 minutes ago, Xayj(OD) said:

On top of my obligations to release at least 1 interview per quarter as I promised I would start doing. 

I'm in que. I can feel it. 

 

28 minutes ago, Terra said:

Supreme basically gave the message I would have said. 

So many different replies to this. I can't decide on which one. "I'm become more Terra like each and every day."  "Terra basically just said that I'm basically equivilent to her in giving messages." "Great minds think alike." 

I think I'll go with:

Milestones were made on this day.

 

where do I sign? I'm on a mission to overtake Sassy in the recruitment department. She is getting worried, I just know it.

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@opal i wish i could help with recruiting for your division because you know id pull loads in for you but im always here if you need any help at all remember that please :) 

@jester  hmmmm 173 recruits 48 active and 5 on trial bring it on big man loved to see this hehehehe :) 

Looks like you all need my help  

Edited by Sassy

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@Sassy what you don't understand is I've already won.  You have stumbled into one of the 5 classic blunders!  (You started a land war in Asia.)

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18 minutes ago, Sassy said:

@SupremeJesterBRING IT ONNNN MATEY  LOL :) 

What you don't realize is I have all the time in the world on my side.  You've been in OD for a while, I've been in OD for a summer! LONG LIVE OD! (and my recruitment chances.) 

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But i'm not leaving any time soon hehehehe 

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4 minutes ago, Sassy said:

But i'm not leaving any time soon hehehehe 

Good.  I don't play unless it's on hard mode. 

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Jester, just stop now before you dig a trench so deep it dwarfs the Marianas. It's nice to see competitive banter but realize you have absolutely no shot at overtaking Sassy's recruiting record. Now having said that, what Jester said is correct. While I believe what Opal said to be true regarding losing members and recruiting on SC2, we're all on the same team. Rather than splitting hairs and degenerating into a petty civil war, just bury the hatchet and move on. In the long run, we're all on the same team and a Division's success is ultimately the responsibility of its Leadership. Some Leaders, unfortunately, have to work harder than others but once you get a solid core of active gamers, a Division can take off.

 

R&R, based on past experience, is a waste of time and energy. If members value their time within the clan, they'll make the effort to login or see to it that their membership is maintained while helping to promote and bring in new blood to the Division and clan as a whole. You don't need a whole "clan Division" or group dedicated to the one thing each Division should be doing on its own already. In other words, it's existence is redundant. The whole community bingo or other little get to know your fellow member ideas do work but again you don't need a "Division" to organize stuff like that. What I'm basically trying to say is that R&R exists to justify a person's rank or current focus. It inherently reeks of Government Bureaucracy run amok or the Bureaucracy is expanding to meet the needs of the expanding Bureaucracy. Granted that's the Libertarian in me talking but it's the truth.

 

I recently adopted SC2 as a main game. Consider that an achievement on Opal's part and although I recruited my friend Matt for D3, he also plays D2 and SC2 if he ever gets around to installing them. I've also been chipping away at another friend hesitant to get sucked into the vortex that is gaming clans because he just doesn't know if he has the time commitment for it(I know he's lying but I'll play along). I've also been doing a lot of Co-Op and I suppose I should look into perhaps asking non-tagged partners if they'd be open to giving OD a look.

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