Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
SeriousWine(OD)

Hardcore Classic Discussions

Recommended Posts

We all know hardcore classic is all about team play. As @Zippystar(OD) mentioned, we have already a great decent amount of HCCL players and more yet to come for sure !

 

Next ladder will soon be upon us, time we try to organize a bit. This topic is for general discussion about builds, Character selections or any questions related to Hardcore Classic. Also I was thinking we could establish a time schedule of sorts of when you guys will be availaible to play so we can assemble few run squadrons that can do runs on different time lapse. I'll come up with a detailed poll for days and time availability shortly.

 

For my part I'll start the season with 2x Sorceress. We will need a chantress ASAP so it will be my main focus, at the same time I'll work on my classic Orb/Fw Crusher.

 

For those interested in the classic squad here's a direct link leading you straight to it

http://www.overdosed.net/index.php?view=Squads&uid=265

Edited by SeriousWine(OD)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Some key points i'd like to adress about classic, mostly to newer classic players.

 

1. The main difference between expansion and classic: On expansion with all the runewords that gives you pretty much any skill/buffs in the game you can roll hell runs with pretty much anything, any character and/or any combination of classes. On classic that is NOT the case, we CANNOT make hell runs without a barb, that is the most basic thing, BO and a decent shout is the bare minimum, and then to have somewhat effective runs we need atleast a sorc to tp and a pal to be the frontline and main damage on top of a necro who can CE after the pal has killed a few monsters. The best combination for hell runs would be a BO barb, a sorc to tp, 1-2 paladins and a CE necro, the 3 spots left can be anything it doesn't matter much. THEN to take it up a notch even more are the TAXI runs, those are where the sorc tp's at every seal with people taking the tp's, killing stuff asap, going back to town to take the next tp to the next seal, those are the 2 mins runs where we do 1 set (15 quick games) and then take a break for 30 minutes to avoid realm down. Those taxi runs are the ONLY effective way to exp at 90+, even for me with my necro currently lvl 89 i wouldn't even bother with ''full runs'' unless it's to help lvl up some members that are leeching.

 

2. Management: As i just mentioned, we cannot simply make any character we want and roll, right now every single player starting on hccl are making sorc, sure it's the end of the season and people wanna ''try hccl out'' so they make something they are comfortable with, but if we start the next ladder this way, we will be screwed. Everybody who plans on playing hccl should have at least 2 classes they like playing and we talk to each other to balance the classes. So far i know blemblem, otaru and myself are hccl veterans who wants to get high lvls so we already talked about this and we will have sorc/pal/bo barb setup so we can have constant hell runs but if we have more people working together to have a good balance of classes will mean more constant/decent runs.

 

3. Sorceress: Unless you plan on making your sorc a chanter or a crusher, i HIGHLY suggest you do NOT make a sorc if you are not an experienced classic player, i plan on making a sorc next ladder since im a veteran classic player, trust me when i say that sorc made for hell chaos runs are no joke, it's a very risky job and if you're not used to classic you WILL die. the FCR and FHR break points on top of the block rate are super important, you cannot do effective runs with an iratha set and a ward, you will die 100% garanteed.

 

''yes but i want a sorc so i can mf for better gear'' trust me, making a barb or a paladin that is naturally tanky and way less riskier if you're not used to classic yet, staying alive to do hell cs runs instead of dying over and over with a sorc will net you WAY more gear, you will get way more end-game gear doing hell chaos runs than mfing on your own doing some meph runs.

 

4. Mindset: You want to play hccl for fun or you want to climb the ladder? We should ask everyone what's their goals for next season, because me personally, i like to climb the ladder, even though i have many characters, i like to stick to one and grind it up, because to me it's way more fun to say i've reach 90+ on hccl than ''i lvled a bunch of chars to 60'' for example. The people who will want to climb the ladder and spam hell cs should be the main focus on class management since we would most likely be the ''main hell runners'' and the members who play for fun or more casually would tag in with us when they can/want. Please note that i am not talking about leaving some people out, i'm just saying the people who actually wants to actively make hell cs runs and focus on leveling one char to high lvl should be the ones who focuses the most on class management so we don't end up like right now where we can barely make any runs without an outsider to taxi for us because if i take myself asn an example; d2 is really, REALLY boring for me right now, there is almost no point for me to log in anymore because unless i have blem or otaru on their pal and eduardo (the outsider sorc doing taxi for us) we simply cannot do anything unless we walk it up and take a shitload of time, me and blem being lvl 89 that would mean VERY bad exp.

 

5. Items: I will make a detailed post about items to never get rid of, and what stats to look for in each items before next season, mostly for the people new to classic, some items you would usually disregard can be super strong on classic, like for example: Bloodfists, yes, those low lvl unique gloves can be meh on expansion, but on that 40hp and 30fhr makes them the ultimate best gloves for a sorceress. On expansion twitch is mainly used for the attack speed while leveling with chant, again on classic it is pretty much the ultimate best armor for a sorceress who wants to make hell cs taxi runs.

Edited by Zippystar(OD)
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'll have a sorc and bo barb that I can load in at the same time, probably a hdin later on. I don't do taxi runs tho... Have had several 92+ and never did taxi runs. Looks like a great starting guide to classic tho zip. Are taxi runs really that much faster leveling? I'd much rather do full 4 min chaos runs for an hour then sit for half an hour

Edited by Vanity(OD)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Question regarding Paladins. I assume the build Paladins go for are Hammerdins since Magic Damage is extremely effective just about anywhere in the game(except for A2 Tombs and Maggot Lair due to its narrow nature) but what about FoHers? Conviction can be a godsend for Sorceresses and even for Necro's casting CE(since CE is partly Fire). Furthermore, most builds are caster focused since you're limited to normal tier items for the most part, hence melee builds are all but pointless, leaving Barbs with just their War Cries. If you were to make one, what would you focus on skill wise after Battle Orders and Shout are maxed? I was thinking Find Item and Howl to act as a bit of Crowd Control.

 

Also what are your thoughts regarding clerics? Namely a Paladin who can heal passively and actively if it calls for it. Had a cleric build that would remove the need for mana pots with 20 into Meditation but figure I'd float the idea.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think to start the season we should stick with classic builds to get us on our feet. That being said, I'll play a big part of the ladder on hccl and there's definitely some orginal build/team worth at least trying. I'd love to see the combos you could make with a FoH.

 

Taxi runs are good and pretty fast but scary. I do prefer full 4mins runs since every players gets a chance to do dmg instead of a din popping every thing as soon as he go into the tp.

 

Also with runs at 4mins, you can do infinite runs without realming down. If you do the math, 15runs of 2mins + 30mins break gets you to 15runs/hour. Same as 15runs of 4mins

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Vanity(OD) said:

I'll have a sorc and bo barb that I can load in at the same time, probably a hdin later on. I don't do taxi runs tho... Have had several 92+ and never did taxi runs. Looks like a great starting guide to classic tho zip. Are taxi runs really that much faster leveling? I'd much rather do full 4 min chaos runs for an hour then sit for half an hour

Yeah Taxi runs are much faster, like Mike said, you either do 15x2mins games with a 30mins break or 15 runs of 4 mins, at the end of the day it's the same, but it's also 30 more mins you spent on the game. so yeah taxi runs will be faster time-wise, long runs is more time consuming and easily gets boring in my opinion, it's a personal preference i guess. In 5 hours of runs you will need to spend those entire 5 hours in front of your computer grinding while 5 hours of taxi runs will actually be 2.5 hours of grinding and 2.5 hours of either relaxing, watching a video, chatting, fucking around on TS, eating something, etc. i personally get bored way easier on full runs.

 

4 hours ago, DarkHelmet said:

Question regarding Paladins. I assume the build Paladins go for are Hammerdins since Magic Damage is extremely effective just about anywhere in the game(except for A2 Tombs and Maggot Lair due to its narrow nature) but what about FoHers? Conviction can be a godsend for Sorceresses and even for Necro's casting CE(since CE is partly Fire). Furthermore, most builds are caster focused since you're limited to normal tier items for the most part, hence melee builds are all but pointless, leaving Barbs with just their War Cries. If you were to make one, what would you focus on skill wise after Battle Orders and Shout are maxed? I was thinking Find Item and Howl to act as a bit of Crowd Control.

 

Also what are your thoughts regarding clerics? Namely a Paladin who can heal passively and actively if it calls for it. Had a cleric build that would remove the need for mana pots with 20 into Meditation but figure I'd float the idea.

i know Mike really wants to try some javazon + conviction builds, but to be honest, it's not viable. Sure you can stay alive and do some damage but unlike the hammerdin you're bound to rely on others. For example, as i listed in my other post, the minimum for a decent run would be barb/hdin/sorc, you cover the bo/shout, the teleporting and the main damage, with foh that's a lot less damage which means more time around monsters = riskier, so your minimum for a decent run becomes barb/sorc/pal/pal because you will never do the hdin job as well and with how small the hccl community is, you're gonna have a pretty boring time if you make a build that relies on other people to carry you. As for barbs, BO barbs will max bo and shout and are usually just sandboxies that stays in town. if you want to actually play your barb, my favorite build is maxing ww, bo, weapon mastery and iron skin, 1 point in the stamina+run speed and some points in the resist skill to be maxed out in hell, shout and iron skin gives you the same bonus (10% defense per level) so if you solo there is no difference, but when you get a max lvl shout from a bo barb you'll end up with way more defense than if you had waste those points to max your lower level shout that you won't use anyways. The best and safest way to play barb in hell cs would be to use ww to do some damage if you are using a 2handed weapon or 1h+shield and you just leap around (Leap, not Leap attack) as Leap pushes the monsters back when you land, and while they get pushed back they don't attack! :P And since you already put a point in leap to get to WW you don't have to waste points in the cries, but yes, as you mentioned, i've seen some people roll with singbarbs (bo, shout, war cry, find potions), that means you literally cannot do anything alone but that's a good way to mf in chaos.

 

Oh and about fohdins being a godsend for sorc and necro: sorc aren't really dpsers, at lvl 89 the sorc that does taxi for us has a 2.4k dmg blizz i believe he said. that's pretty low dmg for a lvl 89. they are mostly crowd controllers, blizz + frost nova and/or glacial spike so we don't get zerged and to be safer, and about CE, well.. As a 89 necro, trust me when i tell you that i really don't need conviction to blow everything up haha in a second:P so basically what i'm sayin is.. I'm sure you can have fun with those builds and stay alive but are they going to be effective? No. Fohdin, javazon and bowazon can be done, you can manage to survive if you play well, but it's the same story i said before, you will never do the job of an hdin so the more random your build is the more reliant on others you will be. 

 

I don't mean this negatively, i'll try to give you an example to clarify what i mean.

 

Example with basic builds:

 

OD player A is hdin

OD player B is sorc

OD player C is barb

 

they can party up and make hell runs with just 3 members, all other members that joins are a bonus!

 

Now with random builds:

 

OD player A is fohdin

OD player B is javazon

OD player C is bowazon

 

They cannot party up or do anything basically. they would need to wait for a 4th member to get barb buffs, a 5th member for hdin tank+damage and a 6th member for teleport if they don't want to take forever walking every runs.

 

basic build can make runs happen with 3 members, random builds means more people needed to make anything happen. I can only warn you that you may get bored to death very quickly with a random build always relying on others to log so they can run you.

Edited by Zippystar(OD)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I know certain builds rely on others. Whole point is to play together so it might be worthwhile to have something different than the usual three you just mentioned. Also Sorcs can do more damage than just 2.4k on Blizzard. Unless they're Cold Immune, Cold Mastery and Conviction ought to lower their resistance to -100 or double damage. Is 4.8k godly? No but it's certainly better than not having Conviction. Conviction also makes single element builds viable(as opposed to multi-Element hybrids), along with classes that normally wouldn't see the light of day like Light Javazons.

 

Hence I'd rather see 8 player CS runs as opposed to 3 player since it's more experience per run and allows for varying builds. Here's something that would work:

 

Summon/CE Necromancer

BO/Find Item Barbarian

Hammerdin Paladin

Insight FoH Paladin

Conviction FoH Paladin

Cold Sorceress

Light Javazon

 2nd Hammerdins Paladin or Fire Sorceress

 

All 5 classes plus all 3 elements, Conviction and Meditation Auras.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, DarkHelmet said:

I know certain builds rely on others. Whole point is to play together so it might be worthwhile to have something different than the usual three you just mentioned. Also Sorcs can do more damage than just 2.4k on Blizzard. Unless they're Cold Immune, Cold Mastery and Conviction ought to lower their resistance to -100 or double damage. Is 4.8k godly? No but it's certainly better than not having Conviction. Conviction also makes single element builds viable(as opposed to multi-Element hybrids), along with classes that normally wouldn't see the light of day like Light Javazons.

 

Hence I'd rather see 8 player CS runs as opposed to 3 player since it's more experience per run and allows for varying builds. Here's something that would work:

 

Summon/CE Necromancer

BO/Find Item Barbarian

Hammerdin Paladin

Insight FoH Paladin

Conviction FoH Paladin

Cold Sorceress

Light Javazon

 2nd Hammerdins Paladin or Fire Sorceress

 

All 5 classes plus all 3 elements, Conviction and Meditation Auras.

 

No offense but you obviously don't play classic. You're free to do whatever you want obviously but i'm just warning you it sucks so please do not use the words ''would work'', those are dead weight builds.

 

conviction does NOT matter because the classes affected by it aren't even damage dealers, you don't seem to understand that hammerdins and CE necros already pretty much blow everything up in a second, your conviction aura isn't going to change anything on a group's damage output because at the speed monsters are dropping you'd be lucky if your conviction aura helped even 1 tick of blizzard lol. javazons do not do shit either, again this is classic, you dont get +15 to all skills with a razortail giving you free pierce, you actually have to waste a shitload of points in survivability skills and your skills stays at +21-23 once you max them, they don't go at +35++, javazons damage even with conviction is nothing compared to hammers and CE. And fire sorc... 75% of chaos is fire resistant, not sure what you're even gonna do with that lol. hammerdins has their hp/mana aura and necro can spam CE with a single mana potion, so your insight pal would also be useless. So yeah the party you described could run hell cs, but only because of the necro, hammerdin, bo barb and the CE necro, the 4 others would simply be useless leechers who do nothing in the hell cs and can't do anything solo either. It basically equals to saying ''You guys do all the job and carry my ass because i want to fuck around on a useless build'' lol :P

 

As you said, the whole point is to play together, that doesn't mean half of us has to do all the work for the other half.

 

PS: also as i mentioned, this is classic, not expansion, we do not have the luxury of having bot runs we can join when we dont have enough members online or whatever, so if half of the hccl members do those useless builds, we're just going to be put in the same positions we are now: higher lvls can't even play the game because we lack the basics for hell runs.

Edited by Zippystar(OD)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

god i hate this fucking no edit after x mins crap.

 

was gonna edit last part to word it better:

 

PS: i cannot stress enough on the fact that classic is a very small community, we do not have the luxury of having bot runs we can join when we don't have enough members online or whatever or do solo runs like the expansion players do spamming 1-2 man runs, so if half of the hccl members do those useless builds, we're just going to be put in the same position we are now: higher lvls can't even play the game because we lack the basics for hell runs.

 

PS: in my previous post at the  ''So yeah the party you described could run hell cs, but only because of the necro, hammerdin, bo barb and the CE necro'' part i meant cold sorc, hammerdin, bo barb and CE necro not necro 2 times.

Edited by Zippystar(OD)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Then, and no offense in my reply, that's why no one fucking plays classic. Builds are basically locked in for you. It's either Necromancer with CE, Hammerdins, a BO Barb that is essentially dead weight were it not for its War Cries or a Blizzard Sorceress for CC. Not to crap on your classic parade but that's not exactly "fun" when builds and classes are pretty much dictated for you. I mean D3 and its power creep insanity with respect to sets is more fun in that regard since at least every class is a viability. On D2 classic, Amazons aren't even considered and Barbs are basically Shout and go back to town. Hence it's basically two, at most three classes to choose from.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, DarkHelmet said:

Then, and no offense in my reply, that's why no one fucking plays classic. Builds are basically locked in for you. It's either Necromancer with CE, Hammerdins, a BO Barb that is essentially dead weight were it not for its War Cries or a Blizzard Sorceress for CC. Not to crap on your classic parade but that's not exactly "fun" when builds and classes are pretty much dictated for you. I mean D3 and its power creep insanity with respect to sets is more fun in that regard since at least every class is a viability. On D2 classic, Amazons aren't even considered and Barbs are basically Shout and go back to town. Hence it's basically two, at most three classes to choose from.

Barbs can do pretty good damage in classic bro, a cold/fb sorc can solo chaos. Have done so many times myself. But yes a hammerdin and ce necro with bo barb is by far the best to go. Im not so sure that conv and meditation would be useless but they would be less useful than on expansion for sure(med might not do much when you only have 300ish mana). A jav zon can rape chaos if there is a lower res necro and a conv pally, like its nothing. So zons are not all that useless but you gotta have alot of help for them to be good. Im sure the same could be said of a light sorc. All in all you can do many builds but like zippy said, they are reliant on other people being there for you.

Edited by Vanity(OD)
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, DarkHelmet said:

Then, and no offense in my reply, that's why no one fucking plays classic. Builds are basically locked in for you. It's either Necromancer with CE, Hammerdins, a BO Barb that is essentially dead weight were it not for its War Cries or a Blizzard Sorceress for CC. Not to crap on your classic parade but that's not exactly "fun" when builds and classes are pretty much dictated for you. I mean D3 and its power creep insanity with respect to sets is more fun in that regard since at least every class is a viability. On D2 classic, Amazons aren't even considered and Barbs are basically Shout and go back to town. Hence it's basically two, at most three classes to choose from.

Yeah it's true less builds are ''viable'' considering we also have 2 less classes, but it's also much more fun because not everything is super easy mode like on expansion with all the charms, runewords, damage reduction, full mana 24/7, etc.

 

Here's a list with all the builds i can think of:

 

Viable builds:

Blizz sorc

Frozen orb + high lvl static

Frozen Orb + fireball can still work i think, havent done it in years so i'm not sure. Maybe with some points in firewall to get rid of cold immune mages faster

WW Barb

Leap Barb

Singer Barb

CE Necro

Hammerdin

And i guess we could put lightning sorc as well, not sure how well they would do considering the mana pool sorc have on classic and the amount of mana lightning needs though. With a point in frost nova to stay safe.

 

Reliant on others to change their viable builds for them to be stronger:

Javazon

Fohdin

 

Pretty much useless:

Bowazon

 

100% useless:

Fire sorc

Edited by Zippystar(OD)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

About planning for next ladder...

 

I think we should make a chanter and a boer asap... 

Probably necessary a sorc for rushing ppl.. but a blizz sorc (cs build) can handle a rush.. 

Hammerdin for rushing a2-a3 on hell..

 

And about CS RUNS

 

Well... i think we should go for the basic way...

 

We need 1-2 sorc players for full cs until 90.. then 90+ we have to taxi... (blizz sorcs)

Its necessary at least a BOER.. thats can be a shared account for cs runs...  (just BO and be afk on town)

Then we need DINS.. necro helps a lot.. but we need hammerdins for fast cs runs.. 

 

Thats the basic.. 

1 Boer, 1 Sorc for Teleport and 1 Hammerdin for killing.. 

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

im curious if theres gonna be a reward for the most deaths. me josh and mike are pretty high up there hahahhahahhahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hahaha, I like the idea. I think i'll add a title, only the one most deaths will have it. If someone else gets more deaths, I could just transfer the title to the other person.

What do you think :p?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

hahhaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

 

E: YES!

Edited by Hax(OD)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i'm gunna be on hccl next ladder. i played a little this ladder... i'm gunna be making a cold sorc and bo barb first then whatever... i have sandboxie i can run 2 copies on my main pc, and a 3rd on my laptop if i really wanted... so i could run chaos probably but idk.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Very nice, I'm guessin your going for a blizz sorc? They are the most effective as dps

 

I think we're gonna be a decent amount of players going barb/din/sorc, I might try a necro, or build a FoH. We'll see

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...