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Determining Real Logs and Screenshots (Copy)

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A copy of a topic I once posted in the Officer's board that is relevant to potential Division Leaders as well, so I'll re-post it here.


It has recently become a major debate on the validity of using logs and screenshots to enforce our rules with. Although these serve as the two most solid forms of evidence we have online, it is true that both logs and screenshots can, and at points in history have been faked by unscrupulous people. So I was asked to provide some effective ways to investigate situations in which the truth is particularly elusive.

But first, the recommended desclaimer.

"To uphold the rules and protocol of Clan OverDosed and insure the fair treatment of all our members, Clan OverDosed and/or it's officials will make use of any available information related to a given incident, including but not limited to; logs, screenshots and recordings to regulate and ensure a quality gaming experience. By joining Clan OverDosed, participating/submitting to our forums, or affiliating with any game community related to Clan OverDosed, all persons; 1) agree to the fair use of any evidence in question to breaking our terms or rules/conditions may be used against the partnership between the persons and Clan OverDosed and; 2) the right for Clan OverDosed to revoke any affiliation and/or permissions the persons have to Clan OverDosed resources.

Our community reserves the right to use this information in whichever fashion is deemed necessary, freely and without persecution."

Don't ask why a disclaimer is needed. It just is.

This can be placed in the rules page, the top of the home page, or at the bottom of our website where the copyright is. Anywhere conspicious should work.

Now back to the matter at hand.


Introduction to Investigation

Whenever investigating an incident within the Clan there are two central rules one should always keep in mind.

- There are always at least two sides to every issue. All people involved in the matter should be spoken to, and have a chance to explain themselves, before judgement of any kind is rendered. To do otherwise is to act without having all available information, which is both reckless and unfair.

- Assumptions should always be avoided whenever possible. Fact trumps feeling, we assume things precisely when we don't know what the real answer is. Although there are cases when you are needed to make a judgement call based on the information you have, you should only do so when you are certain no other information is available. Knowing is always better than guessing.

For simplicity's sake I can break down the process into several major steps.

1. Collecting Perspectives

2. Compare the Explanations (Most incidents won't require anything beyond this step)
3. Investigate background info

4. Interrogation

5. Pressure for an answer

To help in the explanation I'll be using a fictional situation of a BM case between two members in an Instant Messenger conversation. I've chosen IM logs as they are among the most difficult to assess. They are the most easy to fake, and there are never any other members around to serve as witnesses.


[20:21] AngelicOD: hey
[20:21] StormX2000: Yo
[20:21] AngelicOD: i need to report BM
[20:21] StormX2000: All right, I'm listening

[20:21] AngelicOD: its about reckless(OD)

[20:22] AngelicOD: can u look at these logs?

[20:22] StormX2000: Ok

So let's say we're given a set of logs kinda like this to look at.


[00:42] AngelicOD: whats ur problem?
[00:42] RecklessOD: you are my problem
[00:42] RecklessOD: the way you talk smack about me
[00:43] AngelicOD: i never talked smack about u
[00:43] RecklessOD: yeah you did
[00:43] RecklessOD: always in the games
[00:43] RecklessOD: you need to stop
[00:43] AngelicOD: wtf
[00:46] AngelicOD: i dont talk smack
[00:46] AngelicOD: and i can talk in games if i want
[00:46] RecklessOD: i'm not gonna tell you again
[00:46] RecklessOD: you seriously need to shut up
[00:46] RecklessOD: your a disgusting piece of shit and nobody in this clan likes you.
[00:46] RecklessOD: you need to go die in a car crash
[00:46] RecklessOD: so stop talkin smack and go die
[00:47] AngelicOD: wtf?

Clearly a disconcerting situation that we can't ignore. Unfortunately we can't act just based on these logs alone. When our choices determine the integrity and well-being of others we can't afford to make mistakes. Nothing is worse than being blamed for something you never did. We need a bit more information.


Collecting Perspectives

The best method of determining the truth of a situation is to collect as many explanations and perspectives as you can. From both conflicting parties to begin with, as well as any witnesses. Hear the situation from one side, then the other side, (or any other sides, if there was more than two parties in conflict), and any neutral parties.

The hope is that other members who are around can explain what they saw, and their explanations can back up what has already been said. As this is an instant messenger conversation there aren't any other members that witnessed the altercation. There are only two perspectives. So we start with those.

[20:22] StormX2000: Why would Reckless say something like this to you?
[20:22] AngelicOD: i dunno
[20:22] AngelicOD: hes always mean to me like that
[20:22] AngelicOD: i dunno why he just is
[20:22] StormX2000: What is this "smack" he thinks you're talking about him?
[20:22] AngelicOD: i dont talk smack
[20:22] AngelicOD: just sometimes when we in LoL he extends his lane
[20:22] AngelicOD: and he feeds the other team
[20:22] AngelicOD: i just trying to help him
[20:22] AngelicOD: give him advic
[20:23] AngelicOD: advice
[20:23] StormX2000: Have you and him had a fight before? Ever done anything else that might have made him mad?
[20:23] AngelicOD: no
[20:23] AngelicOD: he just message me and say that
[20:23] AngelicOD: i dont no why
[20:23] AngelicOD: i just want him to stop
[20:24] StormX2000: All right, well I'll look into it.

So I need to question Reckless about this. If he's not readily available then I may need to send him a PM on the site or forum to let him know I need to speak with him. It's always better to question people either on Teamspeak or an IM because doing it by PM can take way too long.

[20:24] StormX2000: Hey mind if I speak with you a moment?
[20:24] RecklessOD: whats up?
[20:24] StormX2000: Angelic has expressed some concern to me that you aren't being very nice to her, I wanted to hear your side of the story
[20:24] RecklessOD: whatever
[20:24] RecklessOD: angelic is an ass
[20:24] RecklessOD: shes always bitching about other people in game
[20:24] RecklessOD: now shes crying to you cuz some of us had enough of it
[20:26] RecklessOD: told her to stop and that we arent gonna game with her anymore
[20:26] StormX2000: Did you message her to talk to her about this smack she's been saying
[20:26] RecklessOD: yeah I talked with her about it, said she needed to stop

At this point in time the situation can go one of two ways. In most cases both parties will admit to the conversation, no lying will take place. In which case it's just a matter of reviewing the explanations you've been given to determine what exactly happened and why, and then deciding on how best to handle it. If the issue is within a Division you are not a part of, then you would bring the information to the Division Leaders and you can discuss with them what should be done.

In this particular case, if it's Reckless' first offense he may be given a warning and told not to associate with Angelic anymore, and likewise Angelic might also be given a warning to keep her criticism of people's gaming performance to herself from now on. If they've been warned about it before, then it will probably result in a demotion. If they've been demoted once or twice for this before, it may result in a disablement.

But there is another way the situation can go too.

[20:26] StormX2000: I understand how that would be a problem, and certainly someone should speak to her about that.
[20:26] StormX2000: but calling her a piece of shit and saying she needs to go die in a car crash is going a bit too far, don't you think?
[20:26] RecklessOD: wtf??
[20:26] RecklessOD: I never said anything like that!
[20:26] StormX2000: That is what the logs she gave me depict you saying to her
[20:26] RecklessOD: WTF
[20:26] StormX2000: These are what was given to me, are you saying this is not what happened?

-RecklessOD is shown a copy of the logs-

[20:27] RecklessOD: the fuck?
[20:27] StormX2000: Is that not the conversation you had with Angelic?
[20:27] RecklessOD: yea but

[00:46] RecklessOD: your a disgusting piece of shit and nobody in this clan likes you.
[00:46] RecklessOD: you need to go die in a car crash
[00:46] RecklessOD: so stop talkin smack and go die

[20:27] RecklessOD: I never said any of that
[20:27] StormX2000: I see
[20:27] StormX2000: Why do you think Angelic would lie about that?
[20:27] RecklessOD: because shes a lying piece of crap
[20:27] RecklessOD: and she cant stand that everyone supports me and not her
[20:28] StormX2000: I will need to look into this then. If she did indeed make this up then I'll find out, and she'll be dealt with accordingly
[20:28] RecklessOD: when I find her shes gonna regret ever posting this kind of crap
[20:28] StormX2000: Well don't make the situation worse by BMing her now. I'd hate to find out you didn't BM her before only for you to be guilty of BMing her now.
[20:28] RecklessOD: fuck

Now we have a situation that is every Administrator's worst nightmare. The he-said/she-said scenario. Two members with two different accounts of what happened. Only one can be telling the truth, which means one of them is lying. How do we figure out which one?


Compare the Explanations

Once you have an explanation from all available perspective parties take a moment to evaluate all of them. The similarities present in all of the perspectives are likely the events that took place during a situation, even though sometimes a person intended something different by an action than what an opposing party took it as. Parts of an explanation that do not appear in any of the other explanations are quite possibly biased additions, or untrue statements. A person whose perspective doesn't match up with anyone else's may either be lying or badly misinformed of the situation.

As we only have two people involved here there aren't any other explanations available to suggest that one of them aren't matching up. But we can still determine some similarities between the two.

- Both explanations say that Reckless and Angelic did speak to each other

- Both explanations say that Angelic does criticize during or after games

- Both explanations say that Reckless did have an issue with this criticism

So it's reasonable to conclude that this much, at least, is true. This does give us some information to go on.


Investigate Background Info

Both someone's habits, personality, and past actions are important factors to consider when trying to determine their credibility. Particularly if some of these past actions contrast with some of the explanations you've been given so far, or were neglected to have been mentioned. To figure these out we need to ask others who might have some knowledge of the people involved.

[20:32] StormX2000: I had a complaint of BM that Angelic gave me about Reckless, which Reckless is saying never happened. I was wondering if you could shed some light on it.
[20:33] NotRealBadBoiOD: What is the BM?

-NotRealBadBoiOD has been shown the logs-

[20:33] StormX2000: Reckless is saying that he never said the last three statements he made on there.

[20:33] NotRealBadBoiOD: yeah I don't think Reckless would say something like that

[20:33] NotRealBadBoiOD: He gets mad easy, maybe swears a lot, but this just doesn't sound like him
[20:33] NotRealBadBoiOD: I have had some people complain of Angelic BMing members in games
[20:33] NotRealBadBoiOD: There was an incident between Angelic and Reckless not too long ago too
[20:33] StormX2000: What was the incident?
[20:33] NotRealBadBoiOD: We were doing in-house 5v5 and Angelic blew up on Reckless, said he made their team lose.
[20:33] NotRealBadBoiOD: Reckless got mad, they yelled at each other a lot, eventually Reckless signed off
[20:33] StormX2000: So these two haven't gotten along for a while now
[20:33] NotRealBadBoiOD: Yeah. It's been a problem.
[20:33] StormX2000: Do you remember anyone else who was there at the 5v5?
[20:33] NotRealBadBoiOD: let's see
[20:34] NotRealBadBoiOD: I know PricemoreOD was there
[20:34] NotRealBadBoiOD: SpikeSmeagolOD
[20:34] NotRealBadBoiOD: SnorlaxativeOD
[20:34] NotRealBadBoiOD: I don't remember the rest
[20:34] StormX2000: Thanks. I think I'll ask them about it.
[20:34] NotRealBadBoiOD: Ok but let me know what you find out before you do anything
[20:34] StormX2000: of course

[20:34] StormX2000: Hey you got a minute?
[20:34] PricemoreOD: yeah?
[20:34] StormX2000: I wanted to ask you about Angelic and Reckless
[20:35] PricemoreOD: what about them?
[20:35] StormX2000: I've had some people express some concern to me about the way they've been acting. I wanted to see if these concerns were legit
[20:35] PricemoreOD: yeah
[20:35] PricemoreOD: Angelic likes to point out problems she has with how people game a lot
[20:35] PricemoreOD: Its kind of pissed a lot of people off
[20:35] PricemoreOD: Reckless is always kind of easy to anger so he gets pretty mad about it sometimes
[20:35] StormX2000: How long has this been going on?
[20:35] PricemoreOD: well Angelic wasn't like that at first
[20:35] PricemoreOD: Reckless was one of the guys that actually helped teach her LoL when she first joined
[20:35] PricemoreOD: once she hit level 30 she started acting more like that
[20:35] StormX2000: I heard of an incident a little while back when you guys were doing in-house 5v5
[20:35] PricemoreOD: Yeah Angelic bitched at Reckless for making the team lose
[20:35] PricemoreOD: Reckless got really mad then signed off
[20:35] PricemoreOD: SnickerDoodle had a talk with them about it the next day
[20:35] PricemoreOD: They both agreed to stop
[20:36] StormX2000: It doesn't look like they really did
[20:36] PricemoreOD: They did for a while
[20:36] PricemoreOD: But Angelic started complaining about people after games again not too long after
[20:36] PricemoreOD: Reckless tried to stay friendly, ignored it for a while
[20:36] PricemoreOD: I guess he just got fed up
[20:36] StormX2000: Ok thanks for your time
[20:36] StormX2000: got a sec?
[20:36] SpikeSmeagol: sup?
[20:36] StormX2000: I wanted to ask you about Angelic and Reckless, some people have expressed some concerns
[20:36] SpikeSmeagol: Mostly Angelic has a problem with how people play
[20:36] StormX2000: Has Reckless been known to say some pretty extreme things back?
[20:36] SpikeSmeagol: he gets mad at her, maybe swears a lot
[20:36] StormX2000: They had a fight over an in-house 5v5 a while back I hear?
[20:36] SpikeSmeagol: Yeah
[20:36] StormX2000: Did anyone do anything about it?
[20:37] SpikeSmeagol: SnickerDoodle talked to them
[20:37] SpikeSmeagol: It stopped for a while after that
[20:37] SpikeSmeagol: Then Angelic started talking bad again
[20:37] SpikeSmeagol: We all just ignored it for a while
[20:37] SpikeSmeagol: Then Reckless told Angelic that we aren't gonna game with her anymore
[20:37] SpikeSmeagol: And we just stopped playing with her
[20:37] StormX2000: How did Angelic take that?
[20:37] SpikeSmeagol: Not well
[20:37] SpikeSmeagol: She tried to yell at Reckless about it yesterday
[20:37] SpikeSmeagol: but whatever, we just went and gamed
[20:37] StormX2000: Ok thanks for letting me know.
[20:37]StormX2000: Hey
[20:37] SnorlaxativeOD: hey
[20:37] StormX2000: I've been hearing some crazy things about Angelic and Reckless, what's up with that?
[20:38] SnorlaxativeOD: Basically
[20:38] SnorlaxativeOD: Angelic likes to bitch, Reckless has told her to stop many times, she doesn't, so we just stopped gaming with her
[20:38] StormX2000: Has Reckless been pretty harsh in how he tells her to stop?
[20:38] SnorlaxativeOD: I guess
[20:38] SnorlaxativeOD: He gets mad. But if someone was always reaming on you then you'd be pretty mad too
[20:38] StormX2000: Angelic feels he's been rather BM towards her
[20:38] SnorlaxativeOD: nah it ain't like that
[20:39] SnorlaxativeOD: Reckless just wants to game, he doesn't care
[20:39] SnorlaxativeOD: Angelic just keeps getting on everbodys case
[20:39] SnorlaxativeOD: So we just don't game with her
[20:39] StormX2000: What happened in that in-house 5v5 last week?
[20:39] SnorlaxativeOD: See thats what I mean
[20:39] SnorlaxativeOD: Angelic just needs to lighten up and play the game
[20:39] SnorlaxativeOD: We were doing just fine until she starts unloading on Reckless
[20:39] StormX2000: I see. I think I understand how it is. Thanks.
[20:39] SnorlaxativeOD: np
[20:39] StormX2000: Hey Snickerdoodle, you there?
[20:39] StormX2000: SnickerD? Bud? You around?
[20:39] StormX2000: Damn it Snicks -_-

More often than not talking with people will yield pretty helpful information. Serious situations don't spontaneously flare up for no reason, there are issues and events that lead up to them, reoccuring problems that grow and escalate into these kinds of situations. Speaking with people will most of the time give you some insight into how a situation came to be what it is.

In this case, the information available suggests that Reckless is a pretty temperamental guy, he does get mad at Angelic pretty frequently, they have been warned before which some of the other members say that Reckless tried to tone it down, but when things flared up again he and the others stopped gaming with Angelic altogether. On the flipside, Angelic's habit of criticizing people has certainly made her unpopular with some people, she has fought with Reckless several times before, and even after being warned she eventually continued to do so.

The two key points that catch my interest is that Angelic told me in her explanation to me that Reckless has always been mean to her, when more than a few members have mentioned there was a period of time where he stopped, and he tried to ignore her. Which doesn't necessarily qualify as being nice, but does make me wonder. On top of that, Angelic has told me that she's never done anything to make Reckless mad before, that they never had a fight before, that he just messaged her and said those things. All of these are making it more difficult to trust in Angelic's word, and make for some promising questions that I'd really be interested in hearing the answers of.

Prudence would suggest that, to be more thorough, I should wait until I can speak with SnickerDoodle for more info, and perhaps go back to Reckless and ask him more about the 5v5 in-house, SnickerDoodle's warning, and the period of time where he tried to ignore Angelic.

But as this topic is getting pretty long and I'm pretty sure you guys have a pretty good idea of the process thus far, we're just going to jump right into my favorite part.



An interrogation is not necessarily as nasty as the name might imply, but it does involve firmly, even aggressively demanding answers. An interrogation of any kind should never be attempted until you have a lot of information collected. Here online we don't have lie detectors, and as we must continue to co-exist with our fellow members we can't go flipping chairs and tables over in an effort to scare answers out of our subject, figuratively speaking. So instead there is an alternative method I've developed that has proven to be quite effective.

The process involves asking both questions you want answers for, and questions you already have answers for. Randomly alternating between them. If a person being interrogated answers a question you know to be wrong, this can severely hurt their credibility, and by telling them you know they are wrong and how, it puts them in a difficult and uncomfortable position. Especially when they no longer know which questions you do know the answers to and which you don't, they now take a big risk every time they don't answer a question truthfully.

As Angelic's explanation is the one contradicting the information I have acquired, and it is her credibility I've begun to suspect, then she is the one I am intent on interrogating.

[20:39] StormX2000: Angelic we need to talk
[20:39] AngelicOD: yes?
[20:39] StormX2000: I have some questions about this issue between you and Reckless that I need you to answer
[20:39] AngelicOD: ok?
[20:40] StormX2000: You have provided me logs of a conversation you and Reckless had, which you say his manner was extremely BM, correct?
[20:40] AngelicOD: yes
[20:40] AngelicOD: i gave u the logs
[20:40] AngelicOD: you can see he BM me
[20:40] StormX2000: Are these typical things he says to you?
[20:40] AngelicOD: yes
[20:40] AngelicOD: he always BM me
[20:40] StormX2000: He's always treated you this way? He's never backed off or toned it down before?
[20:40] AngelicOD: No he just BM me
[20:41] AngelicOD: tells me im piece of shit
[20:41] AngelicOD: and needs to die
[20:41] StormX2000: No one in authority has stepped in, told him to stop?
[20:41] AngelicOD: no he is just always mean
[20:41] AngelicOD: no one does anything
[20:41] StormX2000: What about SnickerDoodle? Didn't he talk to you and Reckless both at one point?
[20:41] AngelicOD: i guess
[20:41] StormX2000: And he told you both to stop
[20:41] AngelicOD: i guess
[20:41] StormX2000: So why did you tell me no one of authority stepped in if SnickerDoodle did?
[20:41] AngelicOD: reckless told snicker i was being BM
[20:41] AngelicOD: i was not being BM
[20:41] StormX2000: you said yourself that you pointed out people's mistakes in games
[20:42] AngelicOD: yes
[20:42] StormX2000: And did people often get upset about that?
[20:42] AngelicOD: i guess

[20:42] AngelicOD: but im just givin advice
[20:42] StormX2000: Did they ask you to stop?
[20:42] AngelicOD: sometimes
[20:42] StormX2000: And so SnickerDoodle warned you about that at the same time he warned Reckless about the things he said
[20:42] AngelicOD: i guess
[20:42] StormX2000: So did you stop after SnickerDoodle asked you to?
[20:42] AngelicOD: yes

[20:42] StormX2000: Forever? Or just for a while?
[20:42] AngelicOD: i stop
[20:43] StormX2000: The impression I'm getting from members in the division is that you stopped for a while, and then you started again
[20:43] AngelicOD: no
[20:43] StormX2000: You didn't start again? The division members are lying when they said that you started again?
[20:43] AngelicOD: i dunno
[20:43] StormX2000: What about Reckless? Did he stop harassing you?
[20:43] AngelicOD: no
[20:43] StormX2000: Not at all? Not even for a while?
[20:43] AngelicOD: no he still just BM me always
[20:43] StormX2000: Well I'm sure SnickerDoodle won't be happy to hear that
[20:43] StormX2000: Reckless told the other Division members to stop gaming with you, correct?
[20:43] AngelicOD: yes
[20:43] StormX2000: Why would the other Division members listen to him?
[20:43] AngelicOD: becuz they dont think he BM
[20:43] AngelicOD: he tells them im bad and to not game with me
[20:43] StormX2000: Why would he tell them that?
[20:43] AngelicOD: i dunno he just always mean to me
[20:44] AngelicOD: he wants everyone to hate me
[20:44] StormX2000: You said in our last conversation that you've never done anything to make him angry before, you two had never had a fight, he just treats you this way for no reason
[20:44] AngelicOD: i guess
[20:44] StormX2000: That isn't actually the case though. You and him had a fight after a 5v5 in-house last week, did you not?
[20:44] AngelicOD: yes
[20:44] StormX2000: You blamed him for your team losing?
[20:44] AngelicOD: no
[20:44] AngelicOD: i just try to help him
[20:44] StormX2000: The other members who were there say that you were blaming him for your team losing.
[20:44] StormX2000: Why would they all be saying that if you were just trying to help?
[20:45] AngelicOD: i dunno
[20:45] StormX2000: I don't know either
[20:45] StormX2000: Reckless is saying that the logs you presented aren't real
[20:45] StormX2000: He says the last three statements he made on it never happened
[20:45] StormX2000: Is what he saying true?
[20:45] AngelicOD: No he did BM me

At this point I've asked all the questions I had in mind to ask. Angelic's answers have left a lot to be desired. She has constantly evaded certain facts, and has little explanation for why some of her claims are not matching the information I've investigated. There is a clear intent of hostility towards Reckless, she blames him not just for his angry actions in response to her, but also for how others act towards her as well. She neither acknowleges the problems her criticism has caused, nor seems willing to take responsibility for it. There is little doubt in my mind at this point that she is perfectly willing to lie to me if it means getting Reckless in trouble. But however high the probability might be, getting her to admit it is always better.


Pressure for an Answer

If you've ever seen the "Bad Cop" routine on TV or in a movie, this is pretty similar in many regards. The idea is to impress upon the person that so much of what they've said is false or misleading that you can't believe them, that their guilt seems obviously apparent and that you tire of this charade. Although an actual confession is often a lot to hope for (though it does happen), often their reaction can still go a long ways in reaffirming what you've already come to believe.

[20:45] StormX2000: As much as I'd like to believe that, Angelic, I don't think I can
[20:46] AngelicOD: y?
[20:46] StormX2000: How am I to believe you? You've misled me on so many answers
[20:46] StormX2000: You told me that you'd never done anything to Reckless before, but in fact you did blame him for an in-house 5v5 loss last week
[20:46] StormX2000: You told me that you and him never had a fight before, but you two have fought numerous times now
[20:46] StormX2000: You told me that no one ever stepped in to address this before, but SnickerDoodle talked to both of you about it once already
[20:46] StormX2000: You told me that he kept going after SnickerDoodle did talk to you guys, but the members I've spoken to says he did stop for a very lengthy period of time
[20:46] StormX2000: You told me that you stopped criticizing people after SnickerDoodle asked you to, but in fact it's widely known that you eventually did start again
[20:46] StormX2000: You knew these things, but you still chose to tell me otherwise. Now you want me to take your word over his when he says he never said these things
[20:46] StormX2000: What do you expect me to believe at this point?
[20:46] AngelicOD: But he did BM
[20:46] StormX2000: Enough Angelic, if those logs you gave me are not true, then you need to tell me right now
[20:46] AngelicOD: im sorry
[20:46] StormX2000: Sorry for what, Angelic?
[20:47] AngelicOD: i dunno
[20:47] StormX2000: I'm going to ask again, did you fake these logs you gave me?
[20:47] AngelicOD: im sorry
[20:47] StormX2000: I don't need an apology, I need an answer. Are the logs real?
[20:47] AngelicOD: i dunno
[20:47] StormX2000: The logs were changed, weren't they
[20:47] AngelicOD: i dunno
[20:47] StormX2000: While Reckless' behavior isn't good, and someone should have a word with him, lying to an Officer or General and presenting fake logs is very serious
[20:47] StormX2000: You understand?
[20:47] AngelicOD: yes
[20:47] StormX2000: Now I'm going to go speak with NotRealBadBoi about this, and he and SnickerDoodle will decide how they wish to handle this. There *are* going to be consequences, Angelic. What you did is inexcusable.
[20:47] AngelicOD: ok

True to my word I would present any available logs along with my explanation of the events to the Division Leaders, as well as my opinion on the matter. And collectively an appropriate course of action would be decided upon. It is my recommendation, however, that should someone be found guilty of lying with strong certainty, that they be dealt with harshly. Due to the lengthy process involved in determining lies on the internet here, and the difficulty in which it can be to determine some of them, our best defense against lying is to insure it is strongly discouraged. If a disablement doesn't take place, then a consequence equal to several rank demotions and a promotion probation should be considered the viable alternative, in my opinion. Ultimately however that will depend on the people in authority who are responsible for passing judgement.

To conclude

This presents one example of how the process takes place. Obviously, however, situations can vary quite a bit. The situation I presented here involved a predicament where the least amount of information was available. It dealt with people from another Division whom I knew nothing about, with an Instant Messenger conversation that had no other members around to witness, and no other logs to back up with credibility.

It is hoped that in most circumstances a lot more sources of information will be available. For example the case of DaveRoberts in which lependerr claimed several people had BMed DaveRoberts in the D2 Channel, Aerineth was able to collect the logs of all the bots present in the channel at the time to support lependerr's claims, only to find that none of the logs had any record of it happening. In which case the process will be a lot shorter, and will take up less of your time.



Sometimes even when you do everything right, you just can't get a clear enough picture from an interrogation to feel confident in, or there just plain isn't enough information available.

[20:33] NotRealBadBoiOD: I have no idea

[20:34] PricemoreOD: Beats me

[20:36] SpikeSmeagol: Maybe? I dunno

[20:39] SnorlaxativeOD: Terra this is why we can't have nice things

Although there will often never be tangible proof, as we don't operate in a tangible world here, if you can't determine someone's guilt with strong certainty then you cannot punish them for it. If you can't be certain then you have to let all involved parties off with a warning, and simply keep an eye on them or let other authorities know so they can keep an eye on them, in the event that another incident comes up hopefully you will have more information available to judge it better.

We don't risk condemning innocents here, and if it's ever found out that you have made a mistake in judging someone, then you are responsible for providing them with a very pubic apology. So let's try to make sure that never happens.


Although I have used the LoL Division in my example here it does not reflect at all upon the real Division itself. I have never once had a bad experience with anyone from the LoL Division, and there is nothing in the present day to suggest that anyone within the LoL Division would act in the manner the fictional people here have acted. Thank you League of Legends for being my ginea pig.


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This is a great post and has a wealth of information, one thing I want to add as far as evidence is concerned, as it is happening it may even be helpful to take out your smartphone or other mobile device and actually video record the harassment as it is happening, that way the likelihood of log doctoring is reduced.

Extreme, I know, but it works.

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Anything can be forged, and as clan rules do not permit recording anything , if something is said only between two people there is no evidence. That is why it is important to take even the smallest thing as important and try to confirm everything that is said (this is hard to do). When someone tells me "good morning" I look out the window to be sure.

On ‎9‎/‎15‎/‎2015 at 12:04 AM, AOL said:

This is a great post and has a wealth of information, one thing I want to add as far as evidence is concerned, as it is happening it may even be helpful to take out your smartphone or other mobile device and actually video record the harassment as it is happening, that way the likelihood of log doctoring is reduced.

Extreme, I know, but it works.

Anything can be forged, but if someone will not admit what they said I don't even want to know them. Lying is the second worst thing you can do in life, once your word means nothing you have nothing.

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very informative.

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Quite a read, but very helpful! Thanks, Miss Terra. It must have taken you a long time to put this together O_O

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Probably, though not the longest I've spent on an OD Forum post. I'm glad to see it still gets a reader every once and a while.

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