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Dabomb(OD)

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Posts posted by Dabomb(OD)

  1. On 6/7/2021 at 8:42 AM, Aerineth(OD) said:

     

    You're insinuating that because we have the ability to neg vote someone with so many votes, that we do so maliciously, which is entirely false. JD"s vote for instance where he dropped the -15 on Skooma was adequately backed up with why he felt the way he did. And it's our job as administration to not put someone into a position they may not be ready for yet.

    Don't put words in my mouth because you perceived it that way. I was stating that I felt it was unbalanced. I said nothing of malicious intent. I was speaking more broadly than Skooma and JD's situation. But its becoming increasingly difficult to have a conversation when its the only example we all keep using. You are insinuating that 1 person spoke on the behalf of the entire administration isn't the case.

     

    On 6/7/2021 at 8:42 AM, Aerineth(OD) said:

     

    Just like prior, it's also our responsibility to be aware of the actions and abilities of the Officers, especially as they're coming up through the ranks. It is our overreaching job to ensure the continuity of the community, and that includes ensuring we are promoting capable, strong, and reliable leaders. We see those who are coming up and are more than willing to throw a few votes towards that person's promotion. Just because people aren't in your division, doesn't mean you can't get votes from outside, especially from the Generals. It's the entire reason we allow for Cross Division Promotions and Voting.

    Agreed 

    On 6/7/2021 at 8:42 AM, Aerineth(OD) said:

     

    Maybe not, but it's still what's going on to at least some degree. Ignoring this fact doesn't just make it go away, and ignoring it doesn't benefit the argument that there's something wrong with the promotion system. 

    I'm not ignoring it, and to your point if anything it makes it more difficult to have this conversation which is why I said I'd be open to talking it over on discord there's to much room for interpretation through text as we ALL have experienced before. 🙂 

    On 6/7/2021 at 8:42 AM, Aerineth(OD) said:

     

     

    There are plenty of members of the community who have 5 or more vote power, it isn't just the Generals.Everyone at or above the Rank of Captain can vote 5 points. And as I said originally they're given that much power in the system because they're deemed fit to judge those going for a similar rank to the member. While not entirely the same thing, an employee at a company doesn't have the same ability, power, or responsibility as the owner or managers. We are overall elected officials, by you, the members of this community. And for the Generals in particular, we are periodically called for an evaluation to effectively judge the contributions to ensure they're still representing the community as they need to be doing. If they're not representing the community appropriately, they're destined to be removed from power, and it's really that simple.

    It really isn't that simple and its unfair to portray it like that we have seen many cases where people that "we" haven't felt were fit for their role and yes sometimes they are removed or weed themselves out and sometimes it drags on for an incredibly long time years even. But that's a matter of opinion. 

    On 6/7/2021 at 8:42 AM, Aerineth(OD) said:

     

    I sense a severe distrust in administration with your tone that you're using. We're not here to act maliciously, and we're not here to make people suffer. Those that want to game can do just that, but as you go through the ranks and start to have responsibilities, then people will be held to those expectations. At our core, we're just like every one of you; Gamers at heart. We're here because we enjoy gaming just as much as you all do with your friends. Much of what we do here is voluntary, we're not paid, and some days are better than others. But we do this because we believe that providing this place for everyone to gather and have fun is sustained. That unfortunately means that sometimes we have to make decisions that makes us unpopular. Whether that's in the form of punishments, negging on promotions, side with someone other than majority. But someone has to do it, otherwise, it would be pure chaos.

    I have sat alongside many of you in leadership, been a general myself and shared the same burdens and responsibility. My questions and concern aren't because I have ill feelings its simply trying to voice that I'd like an open discussion because I don't think it is a balanced system. If I thought JD was in the wrong I am a big boy I would go to JD and say hey explain to me the reason for your vote and have a conversation on around it. This is not specific to any one situation. Yes the thought did come to me during Skooma's promotion along with Juju's after I was calculating how many votes it would take for a person to pass because I looked at the membership and then looked at the vote count and was like geez it sure seems unbalanced. I truly don't need an explanation of expectations of generals I am well aware. Just like if I felt the need to rise a topic of discussion then if I saw something I thought to be out of order I do so now. Not because I am a general because I am a member. The thing is I always hear " we want more activity, we want engagement, we want change" From generals just look at some of the recent topics. But then if someone mentions change or asks a question it is coming across like "Don't question me it is the way it is and that is final" I'm not sure if you are realizing but your tone isn't an open one it seems like you are trying to shut me down or silence me. When we should both be open to conversation I'm not on a witch hunt and neither should you be. The mentality isn't in the best interest of the community. If that is how you perceived my previous messages than my apologies it was not my intention. 

     

    On 6/7/2021 at 1:01 PM, Geordie(OD) said:

    Set against the effort it took them to get to that position, and the support they have to provide to maintain it, I would strongly disagree. 

    I can see your point of view it does take a lot of hard work to become of the position in which you have that amount of votes. It doesn't mean we cannot question or that everyone in that rank has perfect judgement. It isn't safe to assume that.

    On 6/7/2021 at 1:01 PM, Geordie(OD) said:

     

    Perfectly balanced, if the reason for the negative vote is enough to cause concern. When hiring someone, evaluating someone, choosing a company to work with or pay for a job, you don't ignore a glaring issue just because everything else seems fine. These people have seen an issue that, for them, is a valid reason to vote against promotion.

    I disagree. Like our system in my current employer we are able to evaluate candidates. However one major difference that adds to the balance is not one person can solely decline a candidate. It's a collective decision there is always going to be someone that has feedback or doesn't think its the right person. Sometimes they are right... Sometimes they are wrong. I am in favor of a majority option.

    On 6/7/2021 at 1:01 PM, Geordie(OD) said:

     

    I'm keen to see these examples, though you say "wouldn't have passed", implying hypotheticals and not real cases - where if someone had been neg voted, they wouldn't have got a promotion? Am I reading that right? If so... there are probably hundreds of instances yes, but dealing with hypotheticals doesn't help us here. If you mean there are too many cases where neg voting has stopped a promotion... I am also keen to see those examples. 

    Take a look at each divisions member base. An interesting ask knowing that once promotions are over they are gone? Unless membership changes I'm sure other situations will present and whether we have the conversation now or later is fine. 

    On 6/7/2021 at 1:01 PM, Geordie(OD) said:

    I'm going to try and lay out my thoughts on this in a few points.

    • Firstly, there are a lot of times people have raised a dislike with the negative voting, sure - but it is a rare occasion when it is not at the same time as support of someone whom they support for promotion. I have yet to see an argument against neg votes flare up where the person has not been in support of the person being neg voted.
    • It is even rarer still to see someone present a viable alternative. The only solution I have ever seen presented is "do away with negative voting" - which defeats the whole purpose of trying to evaluate people if you have no avenue to raise criticism.
    • Similar to the above. No-one is ignoring it. This thread is a perfect example of how the issue really isn't being ignored. Quite the opposite. The issue isn't attention. The issue is a viable alternative (and support for it!)
    • On the subject of support - there may well be people against neg votes. However there appears to be a significant number more in support of it, and a lot of those people are those who do take an active role in admin and growth, and are climbing up to help run this place.  
    • I also want to raise that there are people who have been promoted that others have been dead set against promoting. Yet you do not see them campaigning to change the voting system in the same way we see campaigns against neg voters - even though people end up getting the promotion anyway!

    I can see how the message can get mixed. Like I said in my response to Aern I only thought of it after seeing the recent promotions and looked into it. So again you have a valid point and I don't want to get the message confused I am in favor of neg voting. I too agree that it is a useful tool to provide feedback to our member base as they rise through the ranks. I do also think that it is extremely deterring when someone puts in a ton of work and isn't perfect has a situation or run in with a member or general and gets shot down and one could say tough luck oh well. But I figure there are still ways we can provide feedback without shitting on someone. For Generals promotions each members vote is only worth 1 in either direction.  Ill put some more thought into it to see if I can make sense of this age old topic and I really am trying to look at all angles. 🙂 

     

    Thanks for your reply Geordie, Aern and Terra I appreciate your perspectives it adds more color to the picture. 

    • Clap 2
  2. 16 hours ago, Terra said:

     

    Which one person is that? The only people to receive neg votes on their promotions lately, that I'm aware of, had multiple people neg voting them, not one person. And one of them still passed despite that. The system is a process by which the good and bad traits of an individual are weighed against each other, based on the experiences of those around them. People will hold us accountable for our bad traits, but if we bring enough good to the community then it can outweigh the mistakes or bad habits we have, and we can advance anyway.

    I guess I wasn't making myself clear I wasn't saying it happened in a recent promotion I'm looking at the system in general as you should the generals and commanders. Perhaps it would be better to have this discussion on discord as long forum discussions aren't always the best way to articulate a point of view for some.

    16 hours ago, Terra said:

     

    Rather than being broken, I feel like recent promotions have been a shining example of that process working exactly as intended. The main issue, and the subject of this topic, is the way in which neg votes are being viewed. Not that neg votes are overpowering.

    I disagree I think it's a shining example of something we as a team should look at more closely. Instead of ignoring a system that more than 1 person is attempting to call attention to and saying they are unhappy with or would like to see a conversation of change?

  3. On 6/2/2021 at 12:35 AM, Terra said:

     

    If someone is dropping a -15 or -20 then that is kind of the intent.

    The true intention in this case is to provide constructive feedback that you want someone to learn from *before* they rise higher in ranks, and sometimes that is the better approach. It's easy for people to shrug off feedback if they are still getting promotions anyway, and -1 votes are pretty easy to overcome. People are much more likely to take feedback seriously, and make an earnest effort to learn from it, if it is actively preventing them from advancing. And in the case of red flags popping up suggesting how they might use the power and authority of higher ranks, you would definitely want that person to learn from any constructive feedback first before giving them it.

    Its odd that one person has that much control over someone's promotion. It seems unbalanced looking at it on the flip side.

     

    On 6/2/2021 at 10:28 AM, Aerineth(OD) said:

     

    Promotions aren't participation trophies, especially on tier change promotions. You have to earn the rank, and by default those who already have the rank have more weight in evaluating the members going up for that rank. These are especially important for tier change promotions between Warrant Officer and Officer, Officer and Senior Officer, and Officer to General. 

    This is a good point one in which I have also considered and still its to heavily based upon opinion. Especially when a member checks 9/10 boxes. If that is the case and someone is up for promotion to Major  they need 35 votes. Take D3 for example if every single one of their members max voted with valid reasons and the member checked all the boxes they still couldn't even pass the person. Now you go and have 1 person throw even a -5 none the less a -15+ the person isn't going to promote. That is not balanced. 

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    If we made it so that you could only -1 then you also have to remove the ability to do anything more than +1, that'd be just lopsided and nobody would ever fail, because you've taken away the system to prevent a promotion that shouldn't be happening according to the person's opinion at the time of voting.

    Its still lopsided given the current vote requirement along with the member count look at the odds? I'm not sayin -1 is the answer but I think its a conversation worth having given the current state of membership that has not been going up but only going down over the last couple years one would think we'd be open to changing a broken system.

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    Something people should understand as well when it comes to neg voting; It's not that someone dislikes the person, or people are ganging up on a particular individual. It's intended to be a vessel to provide feedback reflective of the opinion and evidence behind the vote. You use negative votes to decide where you need improvements, and you use positive votes to determine what you're doing well. It's not personal when someone neg votes another. It's merely an evaluation of the current rank and potential future rank the member is going to. The fact that the knee jerk reaction of feeling it's personal with the neg votes is the problem in my opinion, not that people are neg voting or how much people are neg voting. 

    Not the point I was getting at. 🙂

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    Take Skooma's promotion for instance. People rallied around him and vehemently disagreed with those who negged him, to the point that we have yet another of these discussions here on the forums. It's not personal against Skooma that he was negged. The members who voted the way they did just felt he wasn't ready yet, and that's exactly what the promotion system is used for coupled with evidence and recollection of past interactions of the member up for a promotion. 

    Skooma was fortunate to be at the forefront of multi divisions he can't be used as the rule merely the exception. There are too many other cases in which the person wouldn't have passed.

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    Also, as a side note, I've -20'd someone before and they still passed with ~20 votes above and beyond their required vote amounts. So a -20 on a single drop isn't the end of the world. Even with Skooma, there were multiple people totaling up to maybe 30 ish votes in the red.. but he still had enough to overcome it. The problem isn't with the amount being negged, it's just that people are taking it too personal.

     

    Just my 2 cents.

    This side note is null and void like I said when D2 had over 300 members yeah.. its possible but times are changing and we should keep an open mind and stop turning a blind eye to a broken system in my opinion. Its easy to ignore and just like we ALL know its even harder to fix but im sure if we put our heads together we can come up with something even better that's more fitting or to staple on to what you said earlier than we must do something collectively to re-educate people on how to use the voting system it doesn't always have to be a neg vote? 

  4. 4 hours ago, Zakspeeeed(OD) said:

    I’m a little disappointed that more Warrant Officers didn’t jump in to give their piece. Makes me wonder of the actual importance of the issue.

     

    I think after this we should focus on making more localized efforts to change current friction on negative votes. Anything that needs to be said has probably been said.

    I agree.

     

    I wonder if we even change the amount you can put towards neg votes if it could possibly change the narrative of "oh they are throwing their entire weight behind something to stop my friend from getting a well deserved promotion." to the true intention of providing direct feedback.  

     

    If we give people the amount of -1 for example. They can still provide feedback.  But like mentioned previously if majority doesn't think you should get promoted you will have enough -1 that you won't pass. However in the case for Officer promotions where you already need quite a few more votes than standard someone dropping a -10 or -20 from 1 person in the current state can completely change the course of someone's promotion and with said changes would need majority. 

     

    Lets say someone is up for promotion to colonel, captain or major thats 25-50 votes if someone drops a -15 or -20 and you are in any division other than D2 you are EXTREMELY unlikely to pass given majority of  divisions do not have over 20 members. In the past when we had more robust divisions the system was more fitting but given our dwindling member base we could consider changing it with the times. 🙂 

    • Like 1
  5. Neg voting serves a purpose. But I think just as plainly as one can read a comment they can plainly read when the person neg voting is being a bit ridiculous with the weight they throw behind it. Especially if you are aware of the situation(s) that are mentioned in the vote. When the positive work someone does is outweighed by a lapse in judgement, misunderstanding or because you just don't like someone it is apparent to the majority. In most of these situations its clear that the person is more than likely going to pass even with the neg votes. Take Skooma's promo for example.

     

    So be it petty .. be it factual majority usually ALWAYS wins. Unless we can propose a better system for neg voting that once again the majority can agree on then like JD said we are beating a dead horse. Its just like politics if you don't like it then get out and vote. 🙃

    • Like 2
  6. I mean cant we just give you the gawt damn star already? I mean you've clearly worked your tail off. In all seriousness even upon my return you have been extremely helpful and active and willing to do whatever is needed. You have the trust and confidence of your division and that speaks volumes when we all know @Purplez(OD) is the Queen Supreme! 🙂 If I had any feedback at all it would be to spread your wings outside of D2 more. Not that you are unwilling but being a part of d2 leadership and also outside of d2 its amazing how much diversity we have among our member base and especially in our leadership on how conflict is handled, culture is built and membership strengthened. I think on both sides of the coin you could continue to grow but also share your experience and knowledge on how D2 maintains a healthy member base in one of the most drama filled games ive been a part of. Best of luck you have my support for a promo. 

  7. JD thanks for all you have done with the discord bot my guy! Glad to see you doing big things. I truly don't have questions for you. I feel confident in your ability to fulfill your duties if promoted while I do think you like many of us bite of more than you can chew. Since my return and even before that you have done A LOT better at managing your time and finding a balance something that can be difficult. I would like to see social media have more organization. I know I popped into the channel the other day with you and I meant to discuss this more in person. However I had to skip out before I could have the conversation. I would like to connect soon to talk about some idea's but truly its more minimal and nothing that I feel should prevent you from gaining a promo. With that being said good luck and you have my support for this promotion. 

    • Hug 1
  8. Rose,

     

    I don't particularly have any questions. I have enough experience working with you to know that you do your best. The only thing I feel I have noticed is that you don't like to burden others with your problems and sometimes seem reluctant to ask for help. I know the social media team is your baby but honestly it has a lack of organization and progress. Other then that I think you are doing great. You work a ton and your schedule is ugh.... well awful to be honest I can't imagine working nights I would hate it! 🙂 I wish I could better support on the social media team. But without stepping on toes I truly think it needs more organization and it could be fruitful. I have the same feedback for JD. 

     

    When time permits you do seem open to feedback I feel we just haven't had enough time to connect so I will do my part to try to catch you while you are on sometime. 

     

    Best of luck! You have my support for a promotion but I would definitely like to see some of the things you mention you have been working on come to life a bit more.

  9. Terra in the past we have had opportunities to work together. I have seen you debate and even in your passion you always take the time to clearly explain "why" you are making a decision and you base it off facts or evidence. On the extreme rare occasion you are wrong you have been open to the fact you were wrong when it is based on fact. I feel you critique and judge others extremely fairly weighing in both the positive and negative's. You don't show favoritism if anything I feel you may hold those close to you to a higher standard. 🙂 You expect only what is required but definitely hold people accountable when necessary. While in the beginning I viewed you as a mega bitch I also foolishly let the opinions of others dictate my feelings. You can be a bitch... an extremely funny, witty well thought out holding people accountable when needed kind of bitch. But above all you are consistent I have no questions or problems with your leadership and most definitely support your stay at commander. Thanks for posting this long ass eval for us to read.

    • Upvote 1
  10. Eloquently said comp often times we bite off more than we can chew so to speak and it isn't easy to turn away something tempting that you have worked extremely hard for and put in a great deal of effort. But it definitely shows that you aren't taking the decision lightly and your action follow suite with your words. Thank you for your honesty and transparency. Best of luck next go round. 🙂 

    • Thanks 1
  11. I took the poll but I feel like it could have included more or even been multiple choice. Just food for thought. 

     

    I definitely feel like a lot of the new integrations we are working towards will make it more inviting. But I definitely think we need to re-evaluate some of our oldskewl ways things that just aren't enticing for members to stay. However I don't think its the willingness behind things I believe its we just haven't found a way to keep track of what we need and change the system. *Cough cough* DSL. I for one think we could almost reverse the system to show more leadership accountability for inactive leaders. 

     

    I think events are great and I know that we have tried more community wide events but id like to see some different options possibly. 

     

    There is more but if you'd like to talk id be willing to speak with you on Discord I probably should have answered this later when I had more time and im in the middle of cooking so I might add more later.

    • Like 1
  12. 1 minute ago, MelodicRose(OD) said:

    We are looking for people who know the ins & outs of posting primarily. Content of all sorts is welcomed as long as it is following OD's rules (no BM, inappropriate content, etc). The goal is to provide content that pertains to our divisions/squads and potentially upcoming games that members may be interested in. This can be in the form of posting division accomplishments (i.e., WoW's raid nights), funny memes, member's streams, etc. 

     

    When I say "experienced," I say this as basic posting knowledge and knowing how the two social media sites work.. because some do not use Facebook or Twitter and it would be a bit of a struggle to be on a social media team if you are not well versed in the platforms themselves.

    When can I start boss?

    • Laugh 1
  13. Thank you for the response Triny!

     

    I am glad to see you still have a fire to become a commander in the future. I share the same sentiments as some of the commanders. I think you have what it takes attain your goals no doubt. If we take the IA's out of the matter, solely based on your active times it is true that you have many accomplishments but often times struggle with project completion.  You are aware of these opportunities that hold you back and I have confidence that you will continue to take the feedback and turn them into strengths. The dip between 3* and 4* isn't huge. If you face demotion based upon your evaluation of yourself and that of your peers I know you will rise to the occasion and promote to 4* once again. If you stay at your current rank id like to share as an enlisted member of the community we can only hope that we are putting our eggs in the baskets of those that have the time to dedicate to the community as a whole and fulfill their rank expectations should you find yourself in a situation in which it becomes to much be mindful of your limits and respect them. We will certainly respect you for it.  

     

    Good luck on the rest of your eval my friend.

  14. On 1/7/2021 at 4:01 PM, MelodicRose(OD) said:

    Just a quick reminder that we are still looking for folks with experience with Twitter & Facebook! Shoot me a DM here or on Discord 🙂

    Hi Rose!

     

    Could you please elaborate on the experience you are looking for. This is pretty vague in what you are looking for. Experience in creating content? Posting? Misc things? Or all of the above lol. I just want to know if I qualify! 🙂

  15. Hi R.ag

     

    You are one of the few people I have not had the opportunity of working with in depth. albeit I have been able to take part in discussions with you and see some of how you work. You have years of experience under your belt and I appreciate your dedication all these years to helping the clan grow. For a while you seemed elusive and over the last few years I feel you have been a lot more engaged and working towards moving the community forward with the projects we have. 

     

    I have also seen your leadership style and have no question you continue to be a strong leader for our community.

     

    Given the current state of your involvement with OD and a lot of the things you do outside of the view of the community I can't expect you to be more "Active" you are as active as you need to be. However what do you see for your future here in OD and you are now if not the longest standing member pretty close to it. 2020 was a hard year for a lot of people and if anything it proved that the unexpected can happen at anytime. Is there a plan should something happen to you or you find yourself in a spot that you have to step down unexpectedly for the future of OD. Who is in line to step up and are we set up for success to transfer everything from the website - finances? 

  16. Hi Triny!

     

    I'm not sure the intention of your nomination for general eval. It seems we have a split amongst leadership? I have experience with you as an individual and a leader so I won't focus on those qualities. But I would like to hear from you on what you want. Would you like to see yourself promoted to commander given the current state of your eval, would you prefer to stay at the same rank or do you feel that maybe a step back to 3* is in your best interest? 

    • Like 1
  17. Hi Raged since I am a newly returning member while I have not been around for your accomplishments I would love to provide more in depth responses but I will just stick to a few questions.

     

    You mentioned wanting to find new ways to retain members that have DSL'd out. Could you please elaborate on any ideas you have so far? Or is this a newer goal?

     

    I think what you have done with Halo and WoW is awesome. You really have shown what you can do as a leader. 

     

    You mention that you mentored a couple people. Could you also elaborate on what you've done to mentor them and what were the results? ( For those of us that do not know those members )

     

     

    • Like 1
  18. Hiya Comp! 

     

    I am excited to see you up for evaluation for Commander. Is Aern retiring? Badboi? Definitely not Terra! Haha.

     

    All jokes aside I think your contributions speak VOLUMES to the person you are. But we aren't here to evaluate the type of person you are if that were the case you would have already passed. 😉 See where this sandwich is going? *teasing*

     

    I have both worked with you as a general, on committee's and been an enlisted within your time as a leader. I have watched you make mistakes... like we all do as well as learn, grow and adapt. You offer up ideas and while it can be extremely irritating you often times play devils advocate to give the flip side of the coin a look too. I could go on about your opportunities or wins but I'd like to hear more from you.

     

    If you were to leave OD what would be your greatest accomplishment?

     

    What is your greatest contribution?

     

     That welcoming and inviting environment is one of the key building blocks for success in our community's future, and must not be overlooked no matter how easy or difficult you may find it. It is my hope that all Admins in OD actively work towards creating this atmosphere, in voice chat as well as the forums.

     

    While this plays a large part as you mention in the "culture" of our community. This is already a given of our community and to be your ride into commander almost seems like you didn't have anything else to put so you came up with that. By the way I thought Terra was already dubbed the queen of rapport?  With recruiting being the fuel to this fire what have you done with the R&R squad to fan the flames of this goal?

     

    What has the R&R squad done since your last eval that has contributed towards this goal?

     

    Over the years I have seen similar to the same goal of yours always ease out of your focus with minimal results.

     

    What actions will you take to keep this goal front of mind and of priority to you?

     

    One thing that I have noticed we as a community have opportunity with is developing our generals. We expect them to know everything and do everything and often times we relax on our accountability towards rank expectations. I understand that life happens that is the motto of this year.

     

    Out of curiosity what development gaps have you identified and what are your thoughts on how to address and fix those gaps. 

    Do you think we need to find a way to revitalize the zest for leadership? Or out with the old in with the new when it comes to leaders?

     

    I know these aren't I guess what you would say "easy" questions but I have a genuine interest to see the direction of the community and the leaders that are going to get us there. I appreciate your contributions as always and I definitely appreciate your willingness to accept a nomination I know these things aren't always fun.

     

    • Like 1
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