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Terra

Artist work for Streams

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Hey @SupremeJester, you're a graphic artist, aren't you? Maybe this is something you'd be interested pitching in for, could be a chance to show off your work to a lot of people.

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1 hour ago, Terra said:

Hey @SupremeJester, you're a graphic artist, aren't you? Maybe this is something you'd be interested pitching in for, could be a chance to show off your work to a lot of people.

Have you checked out my page yet @Terra? 😉 twitch.tv/scoobsupreme  All of the images I’ve made on mine were made from scratch.

 

I would be more than happy to help others, and I will do it for free; but I would be more willing to divert time for it if donations could be given. The process is very time consuming, and I am living off of ramen noodles, and frozen pizza. But advertisement of who did the graphics and where to find me, or a sub. Would work great as payment too.  Plus you get an emoticon for subbing. (Suggested not required is the main thing here.) Just to put it in perspective a friendly price someone had for a fellow streamer was $15 an hour. So asking for a little in return if I’m I’m trying to customize everyone’s streams I feel is reasonable. 

 

3 hours ago, Tris(OD) said:

 

 

As far as the overlays you have mentioned, I have not created any overlays, I have just used streamlabs OBS that has a lot of scenes that they make available that work really well. However, it's important we get a graphics artist that can truly bring OD to life in our streams.

I have been learning to make overlays. I know the gist of it. I can’t promise anything moving just yet, mainly because I am working solely with photoshop. I can make gifs, just don’t have a ton of experience yet.  But I can easily have a static overlay that will rock OD gamer tags and other things that you request. 

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None of us are in any position to offer payments for people at this time, Jester. It's entirely up to you whether you want to help out, but we're all volunteers for this venture, we're each giving our time freely to the extent that we are willing.

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4 minutes ago, Terra said:

None of us are in any position to offer payments for people at this time, Jester. It's entirely up to you whether you want to help out, but we're all volunteers for this venture, we're each giving our time freely to the extent that we are willing.

I understand that. I specifically put in there “suggested, not required” because I understand that anyone and everyone can be in the same position I am in. 

And you still haven’t answered whether or not you’ve seen my channel, so I can see how much time you’re willing to give me. 😉 

I have before and am always willing to give my time for graphics to members of OD. As long as they are willing to understand that I am a fairly busy person. This will not change. I also mentioned letting me advertise for myself on their channels is a good form of payment as well. And that is free my dear @Terra.  

I also understand this is early on in the setup of this, and can lead to bigger and better things for OD. But make no mistake. Twitch is a business. And I will always treat it as so.

It could be considered a hobby, but not by myself. If I enter a channel and the conduct of that channel compromises what I want to put my brand on I will not hesitate to ask them to remove things I’ve done for them, or at the very least take my name out of their info. These things I speak of are things that would violate Twitch terms of service. And anyone who is streaming EVER needs to go ahead and read them thoroughly to save their own account and those associated with them. 

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Well I can respect that you want to protect your brand and your work, I won't fault you for that. Still, I think you are looking to tack your work onto something a little different than what we are doing here, and being that, as you said, you are pretty busy these days, I think its better if we make other arrangements instead. We appreciate you hearing us out though.

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On 6/19/2018 at 10:31 PM, Terra said:

None of us are in any position to offer payments for people at this time, Jester. It's entirely up to you whether you want to help out, but we're all volunteers for this venture, we're each giving our time freely to the extent that we are willing.


This seems like guilt tripping to get someone to work for free. We all know work for this community is volunteer, but unless something has happened to community donation funds recently I'm fairly certain OD could afford to throw a few bones at someone for their work (if leadership were so inclined). Probably also explains Jesters reaction.

 

Anyone want a $25 t-shirt? 🙄

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3 hours ago, Collin(OD) said:


This seems like guilt tripping to get someone to work for free. We all know work for this community is volunteer, but unless something has happened to community donation funds recently I'm fairly certain OD could afford to throw a few bones at someone for their work (if leadership were so inclined). Probably also explains Jesters reaction.

 

Anyone want a $25 t-shirt? 🙄

Thank you for the support Collin. I also mentioned I would do it for free too, but that was overlooked as was my twitch channel. I’m sure Terra still hasn’t seen it, and Aerineth obviously didn’t see it posted multiple time in the thread. 

Asking to put  “graphics done by” and my info at the bottom In my humble opinion is not asking too much either. And my offer still stands for anyone who wants to spice up their channel or overlays.  

I mean it is a community, and it is supposed to help and bolster people and their endeavors, right? I guess just not me. I’m not apart of the cool kids club. I’m just here to run the awards. At this point in time I’m questioning why I’m even here to do that. Probably because I love Hikato and DaBomb to much to part ways. 

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It was a polite decline.

If you want a more thorough explanation on why it was declined then you are welcome to contact me in private for the details, but it would be inappropriate to turn this topic into an argument over this matter, or state personal interpretations of prior posts.

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25 minutes ago, Terra said:

It was a polite decline.

If you want a more thorough explanation on why it was declined then you are welcome to contact me in private for the details, but it would be inappropriate to turn this topic into an argument over this matter, or state personal interpretations of prior posts.

You can say what you’d like if you think I deserve any more of your time. If there is a better explanation than what you have I’m all for it. No need for private message. Let others hear why you don’t want me to advertise free work I do for the clan.

This post is how streaming helps the clan. And channel management is a LARGE part of what streaming is. Keeping people interested in your stream and keeping it up to date with what you’re doing is a big deal. When you stream you want people to feel involved with what you’re doing. Having a flashy underside to your stream on your info section is a way to do that, and not something everyone knows how to do. 

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It’s cute. I get my own little topic to rant and rave in. 

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Very well, have it your way.

You've stated that you treat twitch as a business, so let's look at this from a business perspective.

 

You requested payment or advertising space in exchange for your services, doing so put us in a position where we had to determine if you were someone we would be willing to spend money on, and how likely we were to find willing graphic artists besides you who would volunteer their time instead. So let's look at those questions.

 

Are you someone we would be willing to spend money on?

No. And truthfully it had very little to do with your graphic work itself, and almost entirely to do with your demeanor as a person.

From the beginning you approached this matter with a sense of entitlement, focusing almost exclusively on what you felt you deserved instead of what you had to offer, which sets a bad precedence when applying for anything that you hope will become a rewarding or paid position. You acted in a manner where your value was assumed instead of demonstrating your value and your worth instead.

 

In the very post after you requested recompense for your services,

On 6/19/2018 at 7:03 PM, SupremeJester said:

but I would be more willing to divert time for it if donations could be given.

 

You went on to say this

 

On 6/19/2018 at 7:49 PM, SupremeJester said:

As long as they are willing to understand that I am a fairly busy person. This will not change.

 

So now we have a person who is more focused on personal gain than supporting the venture, and who also states that he's busy, implying that he might not have much time to help on the project, which puts his reliability into question. This is further promoted by the fact that I myself have witnessed you being late on doing OD's Awards on numerous occasions, with it often falling to me to remind you that it is time for them to be done, which serves as a pretty bad reference for you and really solidifies the notion that you aren't altogether very dependable in responsible positions.

 

To top that off further you went on to say this

On 6/19/2018 at 7:49 PM, SupremeJester said:

If I enter a channel and the conduct of that channel compromises what I want to put my brand on I will not hesitate to ask them to remove things I’ve done for them, or at the very least take my name out of their info.

 

Meaning in conclusion we are evaluating someone who has demonstrated that

- He's motivated by personal gain

- Has openly implied that he might not have time for it

- Has known cases of being late and unreliable in past work

- Has reserved the right to remove his work under certain circumstances or of his own prerogative

 

 

That doesn't make for a very strong case when it comes to convincing us that you should be paid for your work. So let's look at the other question now.

 

How likely are we to find willing graphic artists besides you?

As it turns out, even at the time we had asked you if you were willing to help out, Tris had already received an offer of help from another artist he had connected with during his time streaming, someone whose work looked pretty good and who also offered to help out for free. This person was very supportive, and made such a good case for themselves that because of the amount of work involved, Tris is in talks with them about possible compensation for their work (out of his own pocket) anyway despite the fact that they offered to do it for free.

 

 

In the end, you presented yourself in a bad way, and there happened to be other candidates who could fulfill the role and approached it in a manner much more appealing. If this were a job interview (and essentially it became just that) there is no business or company that would have hired you after a performance like that when other, more promising candidates were available. In truth we likely wouldn't have taken you even if there wasn't another person already available, such were the number of red flags that came up in your "interview" that it would have been more practical to take our chances by continuing to look for other artists instead.

 

So, you made your offer, we declined the offer, that was that. In any professional setting that is where it should have ended.

 

But you didn't actually end it there, so let's look at a third point of interest now.

 

 

Your reaction to the decline

Despite claiming to treat twitch as a business and approaching it in a professional manner, you instead decided to raise a stink about your offer being turned down. You criticized myself and others for not viewing your twitch channel, implied that your offer was declined simply because you weren't part of the "cool kids club", continued to push the fact that your offer was perfectly reasonable even after it was rejected, and told me to give my explanation in front of everyone instead of approaching me personally in a calm and mature manner.

 

Your reaction in the aftermath demeans you, demeans me by having to explain this, demeans the truly good and honest thing we are all trying to put together for OD and streamers, and only further reinforces the conclusion that you would have been a bad person to hire.

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

So there you go, as requested, the reason your offer was declined in detail. I hope you take away a lot from this, because if you learn from it then your future interviews might go a lot better. And I hope this serves to demonstrate that irregardless of whatever malicious intents Collin imagines are behind my posts, that there were in fact legitimate reasons for the decline, and I did my best to be polite during the whole process.

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4 minutes ago, Terra said:

Very well, have it your way.

You've stated that you treat twitch as a business, so let's look at this from a business perspective.

 

You requested payment or advertising space in exchange for your services, doing so put us in a position where we had to determine if you were someone we would be willing to spend money on, and how likely we were to find willing graphic artists besides you who would volunteer their time instead. So let's look at those questions.

 

Are you someone we would be willing to spend money on?

No. And truthfully it had very little to do with your graphic work itself, and almost entirely to do with your demeanor as a person.

From the beginning you approached this matter with a sense of entitlement, focusing almost exclusively on what you felt you deserved instead of what you had to offer, which sets a bad precedence when applying for anything that you hope will become a rewarding or paid position. You acted in a manner where your value was assumed instead of demonstrating your value and your worth instead.

 

In the very post after you requested recompense for your services,

 

You went on to say this

 

 

So now we have a person who is more focused on personal gain than supporting the venture, and who also states that he's busy, implying that he might not have much time to help on the project, which puts his reliability into question. This is further promoted by the fact that I myself have witnessed you being late on doing OD's Awards on numerous occasions, with it often falling to me to remind you that it is time for them to be done, which serves as a pretty bad reference for you and really solidifies the notion that you aren't altogether very dependable in responsible positions.

 

To top that off further you went on to say this

 

Meaning in conclusion we are evaluating someone who has demonstrated that

- He's motivated by personal gain

- Has openly implied that he might not have time for it

- Has known cases of being late and unreliable in past work

- Has reserved the right to remove his work under certain circumstances or of his own prerogative

 

 

That doesn't make for a very strong case when it comes to convincing us that you should be paid for your work. So let's look at the other question now.

 

How likely are we to find willing graphic artists besides you?

As it turns out, even at the time we had asked you if you were willing to help out, Tris had already received an offer of help from another artist he had connected with during his time streaming, someone whose work looked pretty good and who also offered to help out for free. This person was very supportive, and made such a good case for themselves that because of the amount of work involved, Tris is in talks with them about possible compensation for their work (out of his own pocket) anyway despite the fact that they offered to do it for free.

 

 

In the end, you presented yourself in a bad way, and there happened to be other candidates who could fulfill the role and approached it in a manner much more appealing. If this were a job interview (and essentially it became just that) there is no business or company that would have hired you after a performance like that when other, more promising candidates were available. In truth we likely wouldn't have taken you even if there wasn't another person already available, such were the number of red flags that came up in your "interview" that it would have been more practical to take our chances by continuing to look.

 

So, you made your offer, we declined the offer, that was that. In any professional setting that is where it should have ended.

 

But you didn't actually end it there, so let's look at a third point of interest now.

 

 

Your reaction to the decline

Despite claiming to treat twitch as a business and approaching it in a professional manner, you instead decided to raise a stink about your offer being turned down. You criticized myself and others for not viewing your twitch channel, implied that your offer was declined simply because you weren't part of the "cool kids club", continued to push the fact that your offer was perfectly reasonable even after it was rejected, and told me to give my explanation in front of everyone instead of approaching me personally in a calm and mature manner.

 

Your reaction in the aftermath demeans you, demeans me, demeans the truly good and honest thing we are trying to put together for OD and streamers, and only further reinforces the conclusion that you would have been a bad person to hire.

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

So there you go, as requested, the reason your offer was declined in detail. I hope you take away a lot from this, because if you learn from it then your future interviews might go a lot better. And I hope this serves to demonstrate that irregardless of whatever malicious intents Collin imagines to paste onto my post, that there were in fact legitimate reasons for the decline, and I did my best to be polite with that decline.

Woah.. outsider looking in. Hadn't even considered a lot of this. But you make a VERY clear and concise point and support it with reason and fact. I have to say that regardless of whatever works OD was doing. Looking at this from an "interview" perspective like you put it ehhh yall made the right decision. Sometimes it isn't based off "Skill" But more or less the willingness to work as a team and take credit as a team. After all that is what you guys are a team. But if one wants to come at it from a business perspective then it will be handled as such and there is some definite learning material I am sure we could all take from this post. Well said.

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17 minutes ago, Terra said:

Very well, have it your way.

You've stated that you treat twitch as a business, so let's look at this from a business perspective.

 

You requested payment or advertising space in exchange for your services, doing so put us in a position where we had to determine if you were someone we would be willing to spend money on, and how likely we were to find willing graphic artists besides you who would volunteer their time instead. So let's look at those questions.

 

Are you someone we would be willing to spend money on?

No. And truthfully it had very little to do with your graphic work itself, and almost entirely to do with your demeanor as a person.

From the beginning you approached this matter with a sense of entitlement, focusing almost exclusively on what you felt you deserved instead of what you had to offer, which sets a bad precedence when applying for anything that you hope will become a rewarding or paid position. You acted in a manner where your value was assumed instead of demonstrating your value and your worth instead.

 

In the very post after you requested recompense for your services,

 

You went on to say this

 

 

So now we have a person who is more focused on personal gain than supporting the venture, and who also states that he's busy, implying that he might not have much time to help on the project, which puts his reliability into question. This is further promoted by the fact that I myself have witnessed you being late on doing OD's Awards on numerous occasions, with it often falling to me to remind you that it is time for them to be done, which serves as a pretty bad reference for you and really solidifies the notion that you aren't altogether very dependable in responsible positions.

 

To top that off further you went on to say this

 

Meaning in conclusion we are evaluating someone who has demonstrated that

- He's motivated by personal gain

- Has openly implied that he might not have time for it

- Has known cases of being late and unreliable in past work

- Has reserved the right to remove his work under certain circumstances or of his own prerogative

 

 

That doesn't make for a very strong case when it comes to convincing us that you should be paid for your work. So let's look at the other question now.

 

How likely are we to find willing graphic artists besides you?

As it turns out, even at the time we had asked you if you were willing to help out, Tris had already received an offer of help from another artist he had connected with during his time streaming, someone whose work looked pretty good and who also offered to help out for free. This person was very supportive, and made such a good case for themselves that because of the amount of work involved, Tris is in talks with them about possible compensation for their work (out of his own pocket) anyway despite the fact that they offered to do it for free.

 

 

In the end, you presented yourself in a bad way, and there happened to be other candidates who could fulfill the role and approached it in a manner much more appealing. If this were a job interview (and essentially it became just that) there is no business or company that would have hired you after a performance like that when other, more promising candidates were available. In truth we likely wouldn't have taken you even if there wasn't another person already available, such were the number of red flags that came up in your "interview" that it would have been more practical to take our chances by continuing to look.

 

So, you made your offer, we declined the offer, that was that. In any professional setting that is where it should have ended.

 

But you didn't actually end it there, so let's look at a third point of interest now.

 

 

Your reaction to the decline

Despite claiming to treat twitch as a business and approaching it in a professional manner, you instead decided to raise a stink about your offer being turned down. You criticized myself and others for not viewing your twitch channel, implied that your offer was declined simply because you weren't part of the "cool kids club", continued to push the fact that your offer was perfectly reasonable even after it was rejected, and told me to give my explanation in front of everyone instead of approaching me personally in a calm and mature manner.

 

Your reaction in the aftermath demeans you, demeans me, demeans the truly good and honest thing we are trying to put together for OD and streamers, and only further reinforces the conclusion that you would have been a bad person to hire.

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

So there you go, as requested, the reason your offer was declined in detail. I hope you take away a lot from this, because if you learn from it then your future interviews might go a lot better. And I hope this serves to demonstrate that irregardless of whatever malicious intents Collin imagines to paste onto my post, that there were in fact legitimate reasons for the decline, and I did my best to be polite with that decline.

See? That wasn’t that hard was it. This is a response that could have halted all the extemporaneous dialogue that you didn’t want to have happen in another thread. 

Oh how I wish I had a keyboard and not my phone to correctly respond to this. 

 

So lets break down the situation. We have had streamers in this clan for a long while. Most of them have been swept under the rug and though they have been allowed to post, none of them have been made front page news on the forums until now.  This was an exciting thing for me. And I obviously did not approach this with the tact that it deserved. 

My comment of “this will not change” sadly was misplaced. I was referring more to the fact that I’ve done graphics for members and not charged. The second part of that was because if someone is to be rude to me I would not continue doing graphics for them. Why would it suit me to help someone who is being rude?

 

You are 100% correct in your Post Terra. I have been late on the awards. But if you remember right the first time I did the awards it was because someone else in leadership hadn’t done it at all. And then the next time I was unaware that I needed to do it at all. The last time I did awards I was trolled by over half the nominations then people were upset with me that I didn’t know who played what game. Even though they were nominated for games I hadn’t been around. 

 

I did put in that I would like my graphics taken down. But it wasn’t because of my own prerogative but because I want all the streamers who are going to start up to understand that streaming is more than booting up a computer and hitting the stream button. You can’t be racist, you can’t be bigoted, you can’t allow people in your stream under 18, unless your channel is set up that way and there is no mature language or games being played. I’m sorry for trying to protect OD’s integrity and reputation. 

 

Twitch is a business. OD is a community. They are not the same. You’re asking 30-60 people to join a room and watch a stream. Then raid another room at the end of the night? This makes no sense to me. When we have an OD streaming night do we raid rooms every half hour? Secondly, at the end of the day, streams make money. That’s what they are designed to do. Twitch has a great system for it. Your back handed attempts to swat away that fact are working well if no one is noticing. I only know of one streamer in OD, and that’s because he is plastered everywhere from top of the forum to the announcements. If this is how bad you wanted Tris back, I understand that. Never really met him, but from what I read he sounds like a stalwart character amongst the OD histories of great, not good, but great commanders. 

 

I want to publicly apologize to @Aerineth(OD) if he felt my comment of him not reading my previous post with my channel there was demeaning to him. 

 

I also want to apologize to @Tris(OD) if he thought any of my comments put what he is trying to do in a bad light. I think what you are doing is a great thing and I hope everything works out for ya. 

 

I wasn’t trying to act entitled. But I was trying to reinforce that I knew what I was doing. In no way did I demand anything but a clear and concise response. Terra, you were, by the way, the one who asked me to do graphics. I don’t think you took into account anything else other than I have a few tricks from photoshop. And @Terra in all her glory gave me just that. I appreciate the time you have given me.

 

As for the person I am I can not help that. I’m sorry I’m not a person you would like to work with, Terra. Do you stream? I’ll check out your channel and give it a follow. 

57 minutes ago, Dabomb(OD) said:

Woah.. outsider looking in. Hadn't even considered a lot of this. But you make a VERY clear and concise point and support it with reason and fact. I have to say that regardless of whatever works OD was doing. Looking at this from an "interview" perspective like you put it ehhh yall made the right decision. Sometimes it isn't based off "Skill" But more or less the willingness to work as a team and take credit as a team. After all that is what you guys are a team. But if one wants to come at it from a business perspective then it will be handled as such and there is some definite learning material I am sure we could all take from this post. Well said.

I concur, it was a great post. I miss ya buddy. 

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12 minutes ago, SupremeJester said:

See? That wasn’t that hard was it. This is a response that could have halted all the extemporaneous dialogue that you didn’t want to have happen in another thread. 

Oh how I wish I had a keyboard and not my phone to correctly respond to this. 

 

The extemporaneous dialogue shouldn't have happened regardless. This response would have been provided at any time upon request, generally businesses don't provide such feedback so it is important to learn to judge your own performance and mistakes, my willingness to do so on this occasion was a courtesy, because of the good relations between us for many years.

 

I wasn't assessing your work with the OD awards based on the faults of other members' nominations or other people's mistakes, they weren't a factor, only yours were, which was enough to leave an impression.

 

 

21 minutes ago, SupremeJester said:

I did put in that I would like my graphics taken down. But it wasn’t because of my own prerogative but because I want all the streamers who are going to start up to understand that streaming is more than booting up a computer and hitting the stream button. You can’t be racist, you can’t be bigoted, you can’t allow people in your stream under 18, unless your channel is set up that way and there is no mature language or games being played. I’m sorry for trying to protect OD’s integrity and reputation.

 

You specifically stated in your post that it was to protect your brand, not OD's integrity. Regardless OD is capable of protecting its own integrity.

Someday, if you become a famously successful artist whose work is in such high demand that you can pick and choose your clients, and any client you work for would stand to benefit greatly from your participation and there was no one else that could bring them the level of prestige that your involvement would, THEN you could make claims about pulling your work out of something during your employment/participation and it would have some weight.

 

But if your career as an artist is early on then you don't have the luxury of pulling your work out of something on your own whims. You have to judge *before* entering into the agreement whether the people and conditions you would be entering into the agreement with would lead to good publicity for your work. If you suspect that it wouldn't be, then you decline to help. But once you enter into that agreement then you need to honor it, trying to pull your work out after the fact would be hazardous to your career and your reputation as an artist, and most likely wouldn't succeed anyway.

 

Decide what agreements you want to enter into and what not to based on what you feel is good for you, although as a rule of thumb if you are just starting out then you need to take advantage of whatever opportunities you can get, so I wouldn't recommend declining an opportunity unless you had really good reason to believe it would end badly for you. But don't ever tell people that you reserve the right to pull it out after the work has been done, no one is ever going to hire someone if they think the work *they* paid for can be taken away.

 

36 minutes ago, SupremeJester said:

I wasn’t trying to act entitled. But I was trying to reinforce that I knew what I was doing. In no way did I demand anything but a clear and concise response. Terra, you were, by the way, the one who asked me to do graphics. I don’t think you took into account anything else other than I have a few tricks from photoshop. And @Terra in all her glory gave me just that. I appreciate the time you have given me.

 

If you want to reinforce that you know what you are doing, then you need to demonstrate what you can bring to the team, how the team would benefit from your participation, and how good of a team player you can be. Give examples of things you have done well, of occasions in which people have been happy with your work, or have been happy working alongside you. Show that you are enthusiastic about working, that your top priority is to better the team/project/company (even if your priority is actually to benefit yourself), and that you are committed to this cause.

 

IF you have been successful in convincing the other party that you are a valuable asset, and you know they have a strong interest in you, THEN you can try and negotiate some terms, because only then, after your value has been demonstrated and acknowledged, do you have the leverage to try and get some bonus benefits or conditions. Even then, I'd be tentative in what you request, you need to judge carefully what you think you can get away with asking for and understand well what the general expectations of your field are, because if you grab for too much then you could blow your opportunity. There's no take-backs.

 

 

---------------------------------------------------------------

 

In any case, I've shared enough insight for one night. Take from this what you will, and decide for yourself how to apply it.

For the purposes of your graphic work on the stream templates your offer is declined. You can agree, disagree, or think what you will about the reasons or the conclusion, but it won't change the outcome at this point. For everything else that comes after, that is up to you.

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9 minutes ago, Terra said:

no one is ever going to hire someone if they think the work *they* paid for can be taken away.

You are still thinking that I’m wanting payment. I’ve expressed multiple times that it wasn’t payment, but a mere shout out. 

 

Even more you’re assuming that I want to do graphics for this project. I can handle having my actions being accounted for and called out. I asked for it. And I even appreciated your response, it has two likes one from Dabomb and one from me.

But you’ve gone on to insult me as a person, and for that I hope you have a good award ceremony and I wish OD all the best. It’s time we part ways. 

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At no point in any of my posts did I disparage you personally, I have only illustrated your actions and the effects those actions have had in this scenario, and their likely effect in parallel real-world scenarios. You may have been willing to accept other things besides direct payment but the principle remains the same regardless. You were asking for concessions, while simultaneously saying the work you provide for those concessions can be taken away. That kind of statement just doesn't work.

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No, your second post is a very passive aggressive statement to who I am in this world, in this clan, and as I see it as a person. But it’s ok. I don’t have the time or necessary means to combat your analysis of my actions. 

 

Thank you for your business analogy to remind me of my place. 

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If that is what you want to take away from this then very well. I can offer nothing else with this.

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2 minutes ago, Terra said:

If that is what you want to take away from this then very well. I can offer nothing else with this.

Oh no. I took away a lot. I’ve seen many places that I’ve committed errors with my approach. But you slam down the simple fact of twitch being a business down my throat. And begin to berate me with knowledge of how small and insignificant my contribution is/has been. I understood your point after the first post. 

You are and have been one hundred percent correct with how you perceive the situation, relatively. Whether you are correct in understanding my intent is something entirely different.  

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I didn't say anyone was being malicious or sinister for the record. I typed two sentences. I simply said the community has money, can afford throw him a little love for his work, and that your response kinda sucked. The rest is you projecting.

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Sure, whatever, you're an innocent angel and Terra is a terrible person who guilt trips people into free service and berates their hard work. I don't care enough to argue with you two, I've already put in more effort into this discussion than it ever warranted.

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32 minutes ago, Terra said:

Sure, whatever, you're an innocent angel and Terra is a terrible person who guilt trips people into free service and berates their hard work. I don't care enough to argue with you two, I've already put in more effort into this discussion than it ever warranted.

Boy, you really know how to make people feel wanted lately, huh?

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37 minutes ago, Terra said:

Sure, whatever, you're an innocent angel and Terra is a terrible person who guilt trips people into free service and berates their hard work. 

Not what anyone has said. I’m fact I’ve thanked you multiple times for your insight. 

38 minutes ago, Terra said:

I don't care enough to argue with you two, I've already put in more effort into this discussion than it ever warranted.

It wasn’t supposed to be an argument. But you should care. You just lost a member. Maybe more than one. 

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16 minutes ago, SupremeJester said:

Not what anyone has said. I’m fact I’ve thanked you multiple times for your insight. 

It wasn’t supposed to be an argument. But you should care. You just lost a member. Maybe more than one. 

 

Okay I wasn't going to chime in here, because I thought it was over.  I, for one, liked Terra's response to you.  I felt like it in no way demeaned you or disparaged your abilities.  Her points were valid and justified given your previous responses SupremeJester.    If you didn't want the helpful suggestions or the insights she provided to be public, you should have taken this to PM.  

 

You don't know me, nor do I know you very well, however, I have been in management roles many times, and the way you presented yourself when asking to do the graphics for the streaming was not in a good light at all.  

 

Instead of emphasizing that you were willing to do it all for free advertising, and emphasizing what time you were willing to give to the endeavor, you went and then suggested payment, albeit if it was available.  First rule of thumb when applying for something is get accepted to perform the service.  Because the streaming is so new to everybody and not as well understood (especially by me), your posts came across to me personally (not talking for anybody else here), as ok I can give you the graphics but I can't promise to devote alot of time to it, and oh hey, I would like to get paid.  Maybe that's not how you meant it, but that's how I read it.

 

I don't think you should quit the Clan over this.  Nobody likes criticism, I know I don't, but you drew this upon yourself.  I think you have done alot of good stuff while in the Clan, but in this instance, accept that you presented yourself poorly and move on.  

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