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Terra

Promotion Voting and Rank Expectations

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Many of you have probably noticed by now that we are displaying rank expectations on people's promotions when you vote on them. This is part of an effort we are starting in the Clan to help members understand the expectations of each rank better, and to bring promotion voting more in-line with those expectations. In Overdosed we've always allowed members to vote pretty freely in terms of how they feel about someone, with pretty broad reasons, and we're still hoping to preserve this for the most part as we believe it is important for each member to have the freedom to make their own judgements. However it is also important to balance this against what is considered fair and reasonable for the rank that someone is aiming for. So Generals as a whole are going to make a bit more of an effort to try and maintain that fair and reasonable standard now.

 

In preparation for this a more elaborate and clear set of expectations have been written for each rank, including an overall summary for them as well now, and has been updated on the website and the Overdosed Guide to Everything. For reference I'll also include a copy of them at the bottom of this post.

 

In addition! Generals have the power to remove votes directly from promotions now, the days of "counter-voting" are behind us. And these will be used to remove votes that are considered inappropriate for the expectations of rank, positive and negative alike. (Of course, the person will be notified when this happens)

 

Before you start thinking that we're getting all draconian on people, rest assured we'd only be removing the most extreme examples. In particular votes that are coming across as obvious fillers, such as the infamous "active, gm, low dsl" used on even higher rank promotions. Sorry, you don't get to promote your favorite Officer just because they always have low DSL now. The active, GM, low DSL votes will be counted for Enlisted rank promotions only, they'll no longer be considered fair for any rank above Enlisted. Conversely we may also remove negative votes that seem unreasonable and unfair as well, although in such cases we will make every effort to discuss it with the person who made the vote to begin with.

 

This change is aimed at helping to ensure people earn promotions in the manner that is expected, and at making promotions less of a popularity contest and more about the actual contributions members have made to the Clan.

To help in this adjustment let me just go over a few general points of voting.

 

Voting in general

As a member rises in rank within the Clan the expectations that were considered good and promote-worthy in earlier ranks becomes a natural expectation of higher ranks. Enlisted who are active members are good, and that is a fair reason to promote them. But an Officer is expected to be active, simply being active isn't grounds to be promoted to a higher Officer rank, but being inactive is certainly still bad for them.

You shouldn't positive vote members for expectations of ranks lower than their current one, but you can positive vote members for fulfilling expectations of ranks higher than their current one. Conversely you can't negative vote members for expectations of ranks higher than their current one, but you can certainly negative vote them for failing key expectations of ranks lower than them (poor activity, high DSL, those kinds of things).

 

Above and Beyond votes

There are things in which you can positive vote someone for doing something that isn't listed as the typical expectation of the rank. I personally call these "Above and beyond" reasons. As an example, it isn't a typical expectation for Warrant Officer rank to do website coding on our website, but a WO member that does certainly deserves some positive votes for doing it. If a member has contributed in a clear and beneficial way to the community then it is always fair to include that as one of your reasons for voting.

 

Tier-Changing Promotions

When a member is being promoted to a higher tier, they should be fulfilling some of what is expected of that higher tier already. For this reason in tier-changing promotions the expectations listed are those of the higher tier rank. This might be a little confusing at first, because some of those expectations would be impossible for the member to fulfill (An MWO5 being promoted obviously couldn't have posted in topics in the Officer's board, for example). In such occasions instead look for signs in their recent performance that would suggest that they are likely to be capable of meeting those expectations and use those for your reasons instead. For instance an MWO5 who has posted in the Division Admin board topics a lot, or is often involved in public forum discussions, are good indicators that they would be productive participants in discussions on the Officer's board if they are promoted.

 

Regardless of your reasons, you still need three reasons for a positive and one solid reason for a negative, this part hasn't changed.

 

 

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TL;DR

When voting for people, use reasons that indicate the person is fulfilling (or could fulfill in the case of tier-changing) the expectations listed for the rank, or examples in which they have gone above and beyond for the benefit of the community. Unfair or "filler" reasons like "active, gm, low dsl" will be removed from promotions they don't apply to.

 

For reference, here are the new listed expectations for each rank.

 

Quote

 


Trial Members

- Games regularly with OD members

- Is friendly and well-mannered towards other members and gamers

- Expressing an interest in the Clan and learning how it works is considered especially impressive

- Overall just being an active and friendly person is what we look for in Trial Members

 

Enlisted

- Actively games with OD members

- Logs in regularly on the site

- Participating in events or recruiting for the Clan are considered especially impressive

- Overall being an active and involved gamer in OD is what we look for in Enlisted

 

Warrant Officers

- Actively participates in events

- Actively recruiting for the Clan

- Assisting other members with help in-game or questions regarding the Clan

- Participates in forum discussions

- Hosting events or getting involved in leadership and Administration are considered particularly impressive

- Overall being a helpful member and gamer that supports their Division is what we look for in Warrant Officers

 

Officers

- Actively involved in Division Administration

- Attends Admin Meetings

- Posts in topics that come up in the Officers board or Division Administration

- Hosts events for a Division or the Clan as a whole

- Resolves disputes or problems they come across in a fair manner

- Provides recruiting powers to those looking to recruit

- Actively awards Clan Medals

- Posting ideas for the Clan in the Officer's Board are considered particularly impressive

- Overall being a supportive leader of the Community or their Division which protects the values of the Clan are what we look for in Officers

 

Senior Officers

- A productive part of a Division's Leadership

- Actively involved in the discussions in Admin Meetings or the Officer/Division Admin board

- Actively awarding Clan medals

- Resolves any disputes or problems they come across in a fair and intelligent manner

- Provides recruiting powers to those looking to recruit

- Actively communicates with at least one General

- Posting ideas in the Officers board and providing helpful and thought-out feedback in General evaluations are considered particularly impressive

- Overall being problem-solvers who are regularly involved in the administration and development of the Clan are what we look for in Senior Officers

 

Brigadier General

- Pillars of the Divisions they are a part of, seeing to its management, and providing for the members they are responsible for, which includes promotions, medals, recruitment powers, rank changes, etc.

- Actively available for the members of their Division

- Recognizing, teaching, and providing opportunities for the Officers within their Division to help out with proper delegation

- Attends General-Specific meetings

- Votes on all General Evaluations that take place

- Actively involved in topics posted on the General's Board

- Presenting ideas or discussions of their own in the General's Board is considered particularly impressive

- Overall being the leaders and representatives of their respective Divisions and providing for the members they are responsible for are what we look for in Brigadier Generals

 

Major General

- Actively communicates with the team of Generals

- Actively involved in topics posted on the General's Board

- Actively available for the members of the Clan as a whole

- Particularly successful Division Leaders with healthy and thriving Divisions

- Attends General-Specific meetings

- Votes on all General Evaluations that take place

- Presenting ideas or discussions of their own in the General's Board is considered particularly impressive

- Overall being available and helpful to all members of the community and/or strong leaders of highly successful Divisions are what we look for in Major Generals

 

Lieutenant General

- Can consistently provide or build on ideas within the General's Board or Admin Meetings, or help work out resolutions to Clan difficulties or necessary changes

- Plays a pro-active role in bettering the Clan as a whole

- Capable problem-solvers that rarely require help to deal with issues

- Attends General-Specific meetings

- Votes on all General Evaluations that take place

- Helping to host Admin Meetings is considered particularly impressive

- Overall being an involved part of Clan Administration, development, and decision-making to better the community and provide for the members in it are typically what we look for in Lieutenant Generals

 

Four Star General

- Provides ideas, resolutions, and feedback that are intelligent and carefully thought-out

- Helps host Admin Meetings

- Handles any forum needs or changes using the Forum Admin Panel

- Can support other Generals with problems or guidance and help them improve as leaders

- Actively communicates with all of the Commanders

- Attends General-Specific meetings

- Votes on all General Evaluations that take place

- Overall being a visible leader of the community that uses their Admin Panel and Console powers to affect needed changes to the Clan, and can help develop the potential of other Generals and Division Leaders, are typically the things we look for in Four Star Generals

 

Commanders

- Can aptly judge the direction and status of the Clan to ensure it is progressing in a manner suitable and safe for the community

- Can solve the problems that nobody else can solve

- Communicates regularly with the other Commanders to keep each other informed and on the same page

- Identifies and intervenes in any situations that pose a risk to the integrity of the community

- Attends General-Specific meetings

- Votes on all General Evaluations that take place

- Maintains the tools and utilities that the Clan depends on (voice chat, website, forum etc) and manages the donations and payments involved in the Clan

- Overall maintaining the direction and core values of the Clan and ensuring the longevity and health of the community as a whole in all the aspects that require it are what we look for in Commanders
 

 

 

Special thanks to Hikato(OD) for making the changes to the website that allowed us to do this. If anyone has any questions feel free to post in this topic.

 

 

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BLESS YOU ALL, thank you for this <3

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I like that we have to compliment each other more, instead of stating the obvious. Thanks for making the community better!

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Glad to know what is expected of me now.  I feel like I do most of what is. Except the forums part.  I just don't see that many threads that i have an opinion on the subject that is being discussed.

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Thank you for the write up.  I found it very informative.  I am guilty of the " active, GM, low DSL votes" sometimes but will be more mindful in the future and take what you have posted into account.  I have been trying to add more information to my votes as of late regarding the said.  

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This was much needed in my opinion.  I found myself up for promotion today and I went to find out what expectations would be for the higher rank and found them in the all you wanted to know .... thread.  

 

So basically the higher you go, the more visible you need to be both in games, events, administration, TS or Discord, recruiting, etc.  

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7 hours ago, KiraMiamoto(OD) said:

Glad to know what is expected of me now.  I feel like I do most of what is. Except the forums part.  I just don't see that many threads that i have an opinion on the subject that is being discussed.

 

You aren't necessarily required to meet ALL the expectations listed to earn a promotion (and it will actually say this in the expectations list on the website when voting for someone), so you aren't obligated to participate more frequently in the forums, although I would certainly encourage doing so.

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Thank you Terra, this will be very useful.

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About freaking time.. I'm tired of neg voting everyone for obvious reasons :P

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I'm glad to see this change.  It never made sense to me to see officers and Warrant Officers be promoted for being "GM, Active on TS, and low DSL" - that's expected of us just to be in the clan, and in no way tells anyone what you've done to go above and beyond to earn a promotion.

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I like this a lot! Thank you @Terra,@Hikato, and anyone else that may have been involved in any part of this. :happy:

 

-Raged(OD)😁

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I'd like to negotiate my rate

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if you guys use a military rank structure, you might want to know how it works first. i remember getting a big ass book about every rank in my MOS and what is expected of me to not only achieve such rank but to also maintain such rank, this should of been done, idk a long time ago? billet holders are even set to a higher standard as well.

 

having a military rank structure and then having a voting system is a super contradiction in itself.

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I demand my own rank of Berry Master :o It will look like the 5 star rank but with 5 Berries instead of stars.

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6 hours ago, Mursaat said:

if you guys use a military rank structure, you might want to know how it works first. i remember getting a big ass book about every rank in my MOS and what is expected of me to not only achieve such rank but to also maintain such rank, this should of been done, idk a long time ago? billet holders are even set to a higher standard as well.

 

having a military rank structure and then having a voting system is a super contradiction in itself.

 

We borrow the names of military ranks, that is the only similarity. We're not using a military system. "Enlisted" and "Warrant Officer" just sound better than "Initiate" or "Grandmaster", and it's easier for all people to understand what ranks are higher than others.

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so if enlisted are all expected to do the same thing then why are there 9 ranks of enlisted rather than simplifying it under enlisted as you did in your expectations? that would solve the problem of members not understanding what ranks are higher than others. it would also put people on a peer-to-peer level and make promotions more competitive since that's why people are bringing up the issue of people not deserving their promotion. it would also help your voting system and make it more professional for those who want to advance their status in the clan. billet holders would be officers and have the responsibility of the job they volunteered to do, which would make voting more in depth and the rank feel much more prestige.

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Posted (edited)

I see where you're coming from @Mursaat with the enlisted ranks seeming pretty monotonous. I personally see them as a good learning experience for newer members. I've always seen the enlisted ranks as a good climb that will show a members dedication, and if they will end up being able to make it, if they desire, to be any higher of a rank. Of course no member has to take on any responsibility that they don't want so if they choose to stay enlisted that is perfectly fine too. I also see the enlisted ranks as a good time period where members learn the ropes of our clan. They become more familiar with how we work, and get a better grasp on things as time goes on.

 

-Raged(OD):D

Edited by Raged(OD)

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6 minutes ago, Raged(OD) said:

I see where you're coming from @Mursaat with the enlisted ranks seeming pretty monotonous. I personally see them as a good learning experience for newer members. I've always seen the enlisted ranks as a good climb that will show a members dedication, and if they will end up being able to make it, if they desire, to be any higher of a rank. Of course no member has to take on any responsibility that they don't want so if they choose to stay enlisted that is perfectly fine too. I also see the enlisted ranks as a good time period where members learn the ropes of our clan. They become more familiar with how we work, and get a better grasp on things as time goes on.

 

-Raged(OD):D

this can all be done in the enlisted tier, you are still climbing a ladder if you choose to be a part of the community such as tiers of enlisted, warrant officer, officer, senior officer, generals, and commanders. time and time ive seen pitfalls where people are too worried about their rank and not worried about what they have done. this current rank structure makes players worry about their rank and not their actions, hence reference to the rob(od) days.

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I could go into pretty explicit detail about the benefits of our rank system, but I'll try to keep it to a brief summary.

 

The main reason we use a longer ladder system is to give the community ample time to assess what a person is like and how well they handle the responsibilities they have and whether they might use more power responsibly, but still providing a system that rewards them consistently enough to keep them motivated while we judge these things. People are more willing to continuously work for the betterment of the community when they see that their work is earning them acknowledgement and progressing them upwards. A Clan with few ranks will be forced to promote the hard-workers much sooner, or end up with very few options to choose from in the long run.

In early 2016 OD associated closely for a while with another Clan called Eterna Gaming, who basically had a setup exactly like the one you describe, Mursaat. Some of them even balked at OD's long list of ranks, believing it was unnecessarily long and pointless. Their Clan had about 4 ranks, from bottom to top, and promoted people on a case-by-case basis depending on the work they put in and how capable they seemed as a person. The Clan as a whole ultimately broke apart when one of its three Commander-equivalents decided he didn't want to do things the way the other two did, and created a major divide in the Clan that eventually fractured it. In OD, even though many votes up to this point could be called the result of popularity, the span of time it took someone to traverse our ladder of ranks gave higher powers plenty of opportunities to assess them, and limit their advancement to major roles until they were ready for it. (Usually, there have been a couple cases of members who still managed to advance to a position of power before they were ready for it, and it always created complications) Again, I could go into even further detail of what benefits the ladder system actually provides, but this is the basic sum of it.

 

However, even if you set all that aside, the members of OD have come to love OD for the way it is, and the current system is familiar and comfortable. It would be unfair to change the Clan on a scope that large to everyone who put in the effort to contribute to the current Clan that they believe in and earn their position in it that they have, and such a change would never get enough support to pass as an official change at this point in time.

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I've been around battle.net for a long time (2001). Look at clans such as Last Warriors which had the exact same layout of OD and the downfall was lack of leadership and rank chasing. Another clan such as clan chaotic carnage cC, in where the agenda of the players fractured and disbanded it with the exact same rank structure layout as OD. The thing is that you can still achieve the same or better results in a simplified manner but yet it seems you are afraid of change. I'm glad you agree that if someone is motivated and dedicated it will show in their achievements but you are basing their motivation on gaining rank as an outcome to be kept "entertained" rather than holding a billet and being motivated for their job well done or be a part of the community. It shouldn't take 9 ranks to figure out someones growth in a gaming community. It actually takes longer to get promotions in a simplified rank structure as well. Didn't you climb the rank structure super fast to where people were triggered? Which is a contradiction to what you are imposing. People wouldn't be as triggered if the rank structure was simplified.

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As a fairly new member, I like the rank system.  The continual voting is a pain, but it also serves a purpose.  For instance, in D2, there are over 200 members.  It's not likely that you will meet all those people because they play at varying times.  However, reading the comments of others that you do know and trust their judgment helps.  

 

My biggest problem is if you don't meet or game with the people up for promotion, and they aren't active on TS and they aren't active on the forum, where else can you obtain information on them.  I know Terra thinks this forum is dead, but it really does serve a purpose.  I just wish there was a way to make it more active.  

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Yeah I agree with what @Purplez(OD) said. A lot of new recruits get turned off by TS3 because they think it's "immature", and they avoid the forums because they're "confusing". 

 

On a side note that's still relates to this thread, I feel that on the ODD2 division side of things, no one's really being encouraged to go out and start recruiting, doing runs, doing (classic)rushes, hosting/participating in events. There are people who run and others who rush, however, new recruits should be motivated to get more involved with the clan.

 

I will admit @Terra, before you wrote this post, I was guilty of the "low DSL, active, and GM". I am trying to give better reasoning for voting on promotions though, it is strange to see someone get to say Warrant Officer WO1 or beyond without going beyond/fully meeting their rank expectations (especially when all their promo comments are nothing more than the aforementioned "low DSL, active, and GM"). Even with any rank beyond Sergeant First Class, I believe more activity should be expected. 

 

 

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16 hours ago, Mursaat said:

I've been around battle.net for a long time (2001). Look at clans such as Last Warriors which had the exact same layout of OD and the downfall was lack of leadership and rank chasing. Another clan such as clan chaotic carnage cC, in where the agenda of the players fractured and disbanded it with the exact same rank structure layout as OD. The thing is that you can still achieve the same or better results in a simplified manner but yet it seems you are afraid of change. I'm glad you agree that if someone is motivated and dedicated it will show in their achievements but you are basing their motivation on gaining rank as an outcome to be kept "entertained" rather than holding a billet and being motivated for their job well done or be a part of the community. It shouldn't take 9 ranks to figure out someones growth in a gaming community. It actually takes longer to get promotions in a simplified rank structure as well. Didn't you climb the rank structure super fast to where people were triggered? Which is a contradiction to what you are imposing. People wouldn't be as triggered if the rank structure was simplified.

Just brown nose the right people and you'll climb the ranks pretty quick ;)

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23 minutes ago, SuNSeT said:

 

Just brown nose the right people and you'll climb the ranks pretty quick ;)

i sold my golden knee pads awhile ago haha!

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19 hours ago, Mursaat said:

this can all be done in the enlisted tier, you are still climbing a ladder if you choose to be a part of the community such as tiers of enlisted, warrant officer, officer, senior officer, generals, and commanders. time and time ive seen pitfalls where people are too worried about their rank and not worried about what they have done. this current rank structure makes players worry about their rank and not their actions, hence reference to the rob(od) days.

What can I say, the man has got a point.

 

I'd  Like to posit the idea, a lot if us are just an older class of of gamers. Forums and VoIP changes to those reading here is like changing underwear, just once a month. Sometimes daily.

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