Jump to content
DarkHelmet

Commanders need to be Evaluated

Recommended Posts

DH here with your now regularly scheduled source of being an Asshole having now been promoted to WO1(To those who it may concern, you were warned :D). This has been simmering for awhile now but since its now a new year, I felt the need to enlighten the rest of the clan about the expectations we hold for our Leadership.

 

To quote your own guidelines:

 

Spoiler

 

TLDR: All Generals are to be evaluated every 3 to 6 months.

 

Guideline expressly states every 3 months but I give leeway and if memory serves it was 3 to 6. Triny meets that criteria, as does Dabomb and Pops(with Compfreak and Xayj(as a Colonel) falling within the last 6 months). The rest of the General staff, unfortunately, does not have an Evaluation recent enough to satisfy your own Guidelines. The biggest culprits of them all? Our very own 5-Star Generals(aka Commanders), some of which have unacceptable DSL for their rank. The last Commander to be evaluated was Terra and that was when she was looking to get her 5th star over a year ago. Rest of the Commanders haven't been evaluated in roughly 2 years(if not longer). Are Commanders exempt from the Evaluation process or do we get to hold their ass to the fire like every other General?

 

Lets face it folks, either they get evaluated or they need to resign as Commanders because not being able to hold everyone accountable amounts to tyranny and the Libertarian in me just can't have that. I know I'm not the only one who feels this way so what say you Commanders?

 

For the record, I was doing the following this morning:

200w.gif#87-grid1

 

PS: If I get demoted for this, I take full responsibility. Do take into consideration I may be doing this just for that reason :devil:. Also if I'm stuck as a WO, may I get bumped to the correct usergroup here, on Discord and Teamspeak?

 

Also to anyone reading this:

 

200.gif#97-grid1

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

So I used to be able to lock and move this topic. And a general used to be able to provide a random demotion attributed to this thread maker for reasons.

 

I couldn't do any of that now, which is a stark contrast compared to the time of my start here. At best I could respond with some snark here, encourage you to get rude, and most likely troll you into disrespect. Looking back over the last three years the standard handling of a terrible, rotten, ill intended response from you following my trolling would be a 1-30 day forum ban depending on precedent, what you actually said, and whether I got laid in the last six months.

 

I just want you to know, we see you. Some of us see this issue. The best way this can be handled is by a grown up discussion addressing our misgivings, bad behaviors and questionable actions. We do that together, as a group, and hopefully with intention of celebrating and sharing each other's strengths publicly as well as negatives.

 

Oh wait, that is the eval period, which is about to start and im thinking if yourself, and more with questions and concerns like yours help us, and fully participate we can have one of the more active and productive eval periods in the better part of a year.

 

I for one, as a general of evaluation nomination procedures seemed to have forgotten the use of evals not just as a check on behavior or success and failure measuring, but the use of the eval period to normalize and humanize our leadership to members who may have less interaction with us from various platforms, time constraints of individuals, and above all showing that we too are people, willing to learn, not always right and never above reproach.

 

Edit: I'm on a phone, someone help me and provide the change on commanders specifically not being required the same way as the rest of us generals. I'd also point out, when we don't incite a general eval upon ourselves there is a procedure of how to get one required from us. I personally want to submit and am starting to prepare myself to volunteer an eval this period, one because I have not submitted one since earning a star, and two because it will be good for my personal life during this prison interlude, and attempt at being accountable for myself, my duty, and moral benefit. As why the rest of us might not be following the 3-6, I'll speak for myself and maybe some others, we've seemed to be using evals more for a reproach then when a person is doing their job, not necessarily for promotion though triny sassy and compfreak would be upward moving eval examples, or more precisely to just show success of requirement and fulfillment of expectations. This period of my time here, I could honestly say and be confident in saying we actually have generals who do not necessarily have commander or world domination aspirations, which again, I think at least is a little unusual.

Edited by Townkill(OD)
Added for thread link info

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As I stated in discord, I think the process is being misunderstood here.

 

Brigadier Generals, Major Generals, Lieutenant Generals, and Generals can be evaluated every 3 months. Commanders, after being promoted from General get a 6 month grace period. On that 6th month, they may be evaluated every 3 months afterwards.

 

Furthermore, Colonels, for that matter, may potentially also be evaluated every 3 months.

 

There's no stipulation that requires us to post an evaluation unless we're called to. Failure to post one after being called to does result in a demotion.

 

However. If you would instead wish to see an evaluation from us, I have no issue posting one. I'll be the first up to the plate to post an evaluation if the community deems it necessary. We are judged by you, the community, and if you feel I am not doing my job, then I should be judged.

  • Like 1
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Exactly true. My tldr post I hope alluded to the idea that I think us not having a bunch gives off the hiding or unaccountable impression to some. However nothing is further from the truth. I think the success of the people being where they could and should be just tends to leave some of us seeming more quiet then we are. The last couple two star evals I think attested just to that, as they each garnished quite the positive support that we may not of all expected when we voted to call for those evals.

 

To be honest Mr helmet, I'd wager the jobs more on our members from your rank area to ask for people's publicity through evaluation when you guys want it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not much to add this this thread except for that Aerineth hit this one on the head. My best suggestion is to talk to the leaders you actually look up to. For you it sounds like maybe talk to Triny or Dabomb. Ask them questions. Commanders rank is a very interesting rank because their type of influence on the Clan can vary greatly as each paves their own way. Ask them their thoughts on the Commanders since they are more likely to be working closely with them. If you still want to see them over the fire, urge them to nominate said Commander(s). Talk to other members and get them to also talk to their division leaders/generals. If they don't listen, try to get other generals promoted that will hold them accountable. 

 

That set aside, I would never demote you over a post like this but I have seen worse for less. I will admit this though it's probably not in the best taste to try and call people out on the forums like this unless you really feel it's a last resort (which it never is). 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

DH loves to be controversial. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well in all fairness to the commanders I feel the work they do is already in front of half the community. They are either working on the website or forums or hosting/directing our admin/general meetings and providing their knowledge in all discussions throughout the administration. So I feel if the generals had any thought they weren't doing a good enough job or wanted to question a commander we as generals would nominate them just like the rule states. So like it was mentioned earlier if you feel one or all of the commanders aren't doing their job you are more than welcome to come and state your case to any of the generals and we will submit our nominations according to what we feel is best for the community. 

 

However I do not feel any of this will lead to a demotion you were merely stating your interpretation of a rule.. nothing wrong with that. lol

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I do also want to add one more point that I forgot to mention. The majority of the 'evaluations' are because that person (or others) want to see that person promoted. It's not common for people to be put up for promotion because people want them to be demoted. Since Commanders can only go down I believe that the evaluation consistency are not unlike any of the other ranks in the sense that people are not being put up for evaluation in hopes of a demotion. People are not putting people up because they think they are unfit and should be demoted. This has been a common trend for years now. It's probably because in recent years, there has been less Generals for the most part. Why? Probably has to do with the much higher standards that have been pushed onto the Generals over the past 4 years or so. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/2/2018 at 8:56 AM, DarkHelmet said:

Lets face it folks, either they get evaluated or they need to resign as Commanders

 

I could not help but break into a big grin after reading this. I'm impressed DH, you got some balls, man.

The others have already said that calling people out on the forum isn't the best approach, and they're right, it *usually* doesn't accomplish anything and isn't the correct or professional way to go about it. But personally I always did love the excitement of it, so I can't help but enjoy it a little anyway. (Secretly, between you and me I kinda wish they happened a bit more often)

 

Generals can nominate Commanders, so can other Commanders, and assuming they have the good reasons to do so and as much guts as you do then they will. But for myself personally, I'll be happy to address any concerns people have with me specifically right here in this topic, we can give me a mini eval right now, I don't mind. I'd rather get it out in the open and work it out now rather than not know about any concerns people may have. So feel free to hit me all you want.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Be careful what you wish for Terra. It might come true. You remember last time..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Terra said:

 

I could not help but break into a big grin after reading this. I'm impressed DH, you got some balls, man.

The others have already said that calling people out on the forum isn't the best approach, and they're right, it *usually* doesn't accomplish anything and isn't the correct or professional way to go about it. But personally I always did love the excitement of it, so I can't help but enjoy it a little anyway. (Secretly, between you and me I kinda wish they happened a bit more often)

 

Generals can nominate Commanders, so can other Commanders, and assuming they have the good reasons to do so and as much guts as you do then they will. But for myself personally, I'll be happy to address any concerns people have with me specifically right here in this topic, we can give me a mini eval right now, I don't mind. I'd rather get it out in the open and work it out now rather than not know about any concerns people may have. So feel free to hit me all you want.

WHEN CAN I HAVE A CAPE!?

When can we sacrifice @PJPotter(OD) in a satanic ritual

can we please get a mascot?

Aer told me you once fought godzilla with only a broken wine bottle and a shoe is this true or fable

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i did it all the time we had lots of fun ^.^ and changed lots of things for the better ^.^

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, TypeReaL(OD) said:

WHEN CAN I HAVE A CAPE!?

 

As soon as they make one that fits straight-jackets.

 

10 hours ago, TypeReaL(OD) said:

When can we sacrifice @PJPotter(OD) in a satanic ritual

 

Some other time, I don't require sacrifices at the moment.

 

10 hours ago, TypeReaL(OD) said:

can we please get a mascot?

 

Isn't that what you are? OD's poster boy? You do seem to enjoy making people laugh at you, seems like a good fit.

 

10 hours ago, TypeReaL(OD) said:

Aer told me you once fought godzilla with only a broken wine bottle and a shoe is this true or fable

 

Fable. In the real story I was drunk while I did it, hence why I had a wine bottle.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Im happy with everyone of those answers 2018 is coming up Type

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/5/2018 at 5:46 PM, Aerineth(OD) said:

Be careful what you wish for Terra. It might come true. You remember last time..

lol do tell.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry for the delay in getting back to this but I've been busy and have been patiently waiting for everyone to chime in. Skimmed through pretty much everything that has been posted so far but as I told @Aerineth(OD) on Discord,

 

giphy.gif

It doesn't stop me from saying that all Generals, including Commanders, should be evaluated at least every 6 to 12 months(regardless of whether or not they intend to go up the rank chain). This is to ensure that complacency doesn't set in and that those with the power are actually using it. The fact that the majority of Commanders have gone over 2 years since they were last evaluated is a bit eye raising. I mean sure you have no where to go on the rank chain but it'd be nice to get an update as to what you're all up to right now and whether or not we feel you warrant getting a kick in the ass.

 

Here's a brief rundown of what I've seen from the Commanders in my time here:

 

Aerineth has been relatively active in Overwatch and lately Final Fantasy, helping MelodicRose establish a small and growing Division within OD. Been awhile since your last evaluation but you noted that you were thinking of actually doing one(might be time no?).

Tris, not sure what you've been up to but real life has sure been good to you(much luck on that btw). An Evaluation might help shed some light on your day to day exploits.

Badboi, outside of making beer and doing Overwatch, you're kind of in the same boat as Tris.

Terra, although your 4 to 5 Star Evaluation was roughly a year ago, it might be nice to know what you've been up to since then.

Ragnarok... I think I speak for everyone when I say that you need to enter the 21st Century. AIM is dead and Trillian has been largely replaced by better and more modern platforms. I mean Discord is basically Trillian but MUCH, MUCH better. Also thought you'd be doing FF14 but I've yet to hear of you being on there so... what gives?

 

May not be accurate representations of every Commander but that's what Evaluations are for(to clear the air and inform everyone what you've been up to). I went into this thread with the objective to ruffle some feathers(seems I succeeded). That was Step 1. Step 2: ????(working on that and may require multiple objectives). Step 3: Profit(or in this case 2024 Coup Commander run). Note that this topic wasn't aimed at 1-4 star Generals but our 5-star Bureaucrats(and if anyone doesn't get the Southpark joke, you all suck).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's easy to look at an eval as a pretty simple thing, from the outside it just looks like someone answering questions, right? But a lot of times it can actually be pretty stressful for the person being evaluated. It's not really just a matter of giving a report and answering some mundane questions from a few people (although that certainly is part of it), it's about standing up on a pedestal in front of everyone and asking them to judge all that you are. And sometimes OD has been known to judge harshly. There is an anxiety involved in waiting to find out if you measure up to the standards of the populace, and that's not even accounting for the fact that evals have sometimes been used for particularly disgruntled members to unload their criticisms with impunity. Not all members up for eval need to deal with that thankfully, but some do, and even for those that don't, it can be an ordeal nonetheless.

As a vetting process it works pretty good. It's a bit easier to endure if the opportunity for a promotion can come at the end of it, and it serves as a pretty good discouraging punishment for those who might otherwise tend to slack on their responsibilities, but it's not exactly something I would subject someone to just for giving routine reports. I suspect in some cases it may even be one of the reasons some members don't ambitiously try to vie for the higher General ranks more, in their mind it just isn't worth the hassle. But I won't say that definitively as I can't say for certain, never asked them myself.

 

In any case, rather than having Generals or in this case Commanders report to you on their performance every 6 months, maybe you should just ask them what they have been doing lately? Maybe ask their peers? I'm sure a lot of the Generals, and fellow Commanders, can shed some light on a bit of our recent activities. It's not like we've been trying to keep it secret, we just don't make a habit of parading our accomplishments around on a daily basis.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Hey I recruited some people recently and never received my performance bonus....

 

Oh shit my bad, I forgot this wasn't a job.

 

Here's a little quote

 

Don't let things you own, own you

Edited by SuNSeT
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm at a conference.. so I can't put a whole lot of input in, but it would be nice to have evaluations done of higher ranks as I'm unsure what half of them are actually doing..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, those in higher positions should be subject to regular evaluation [6-12months for the originally mentioned ranks] to ensure a high standard is being maintained, along with making sure whatever extra responsibilities said individual has are being handled properly, and with integrity. 

 

It's very easy to become complacent and let things slide - then it slowly rolls down the slope and you can find that a particular division or squad is now failing to maintain a certain standard, rule, or regulation that should be maintained by all clan OD members is no longer happening.

 

I understand that evaluations can be incredibly stressful for the person being evaluated - but it comes with the turf.  If you want the rank you get all of its ups and downs along with it.  This may not be a job, but by stepping up and choosing to take on these responsibilities, you have no right to complain.  You made the choice, now take responsibility for that choice.

 

People in these higher ranks are supposed to be looked up to by all of the various lower ranking members within the community.  You're supposed to be a pillar of the community and / or division(s) you're in - alongside with holding yourself and all other members to the rules and regulations within the community.

 

Tossing my 2 cents in here  -- and while I would normally agree a public forum isn't the best place --- In OD's case it very well may be due to the large community size along with people being in very different time zones -- at least now everyone can pitch in.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Terra said:

Maybe if such people were a bit more proactive about finding the answers for themselves, instead of expecting others to report it to them, then they would be one of the people in those high ranks.

 

Couldn't have said it any better =).

  • Like 2
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Honestly, does it really even matter?  Does rank actually matter? Beyond some additional console commands, and administrative features, does this shit seriously matter?  If you're here to have some fun with like minded people, and you are able to do so, then rank is totally insignificant.  Might as well get rid of it all together.  If you're unable to have fun with other people without rank being a compelling factor, you're doing it wrong. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I still don't see why this has garnered aggressive responses.  Expecting accountability of higher ups is a standard in and of itself in numerous organizations around the world.

 

As for myself, I was speaking from my experience in the military where as a squad leader I was subject to regular evaluations alongside every other platoon sergeant and squad leader in my batallion.  It's simply something I support due to the reasons behind it.

 

I merely cited reasons supporting why having these evaluations would be beneficial, and in no way stated nor accused any of the administrative staff [commanders of generals] to be complacent or incompetent.  

 

I will however say that the title of this thread could have been [and should have been] much more neutral sounding, as glancing at that alone paints the picture of incompetence and a lack of trust in the commanders and generals.

 

And while I agree Terra that courageous doesn't always mean correct, I think a more core underlying issue is being overlooked [or perhaps I'm looking to much into it?] Why did DH feel he needed to make this thread to get his point across? What lead to this being the ultimate decision I'm communicating the problem?  Those 2 questions at least to me are very important in this, and I'm honestly kicking myself for not originally asking them.

 

I do not see anything wrong with asking "What has so and so done? I don't see them around much at all".  I would like to change my opinion on one thing though,  and that's that this should have been handled at the lowest possible level of command, as with any other issues.  This again draws from my military days but it's a good system.   

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It was a bit of an aggressive response, I won't deny that. But the tone of the topic was set as pretty aggressive from the first post. This wasn't a topic created to ask a question or discuss a problem, it was a mandate created for the Commanders, and when it looked like people were starting to rally behind such an idea, I needed to be very direct and very clear that this isn't going to happen simply because some people think we owe it to them.

 

This isn't a question of holding higher ranks accountable or not, there are already methods used to hold higher ranks accountable that we use. This was about the method being proposed that people wanted to use to hold higher ranks accountable, that being making it mandatory to write evaluations every 6 - 12 months. But the only reason that has been provided as to why high admins, specifically Commanders, should do this, was the "I don't know what they do" reason.

 

What is important is that Generals and Commanders fulfill the roles that maintain the integrity of the community, not that they repeatedly explain how they do it. The burden is on the individual who wants to know to take the time to ask and learn the answers to the questions that they have, not for people to provide those answers for them. And as of so far that is what the people of this topic are asking for.

 

As for why DH felt the need to make the topic, that is indeed an excellent question to ask him.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


×