snicker66(OD)

Main Voice Communication Platform for Community

164 posts in this topic

Good evening,

 

I wanted to start a topic for discussion for the 'core' functions' that are used by the community and what platform provides the most functionality for the community.

 

Can a member of each division post the 'functions' that you use on any platform of the voice communication software.

 

I also want someone who is of aware of the management side of discord, teamspeak, or vent.  We need to find out what administrative functions are needed as a administrator for the platform to function as a safe, efficient, well-rounded platform.

 

Can we get this discussion underway,  before we make any decision, the administration team needs more information for making the best decision for the community to function on the many different platforms out there.

 

Regards,

Quintin

Snicker66(OD)

 

 

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Hello,

 

I suppose I’ll start off with my two cents in this topic. Overall, I am a large supporter of a movement to Discord for many reasons. I understand that this is a huge switch and I understand that there are many concerns so I will try to iron out what I have knowledge of and provide my input.

 

From the division leader standpoint, recruiting for FFXIV with the advertisement of TS3 has been immensely difficult. I’ve had people who were interested in both the FC and in the gaming community as a whole completely stop messaging me because we are using an “outdated” voice service and most of the community within the game is using Discord. We have had a large struggle with getting players involved with the community itself, minus our two very successful recruits, while using TS3 and overall I think much of the modern gaming world has moved on from TS3, much like we’ve moved on from Skype and various other outlets in the past. Since offering Discord as a resource, we’ve gotten a few more people involved and had some conversations happening in our channels. The only complaint I’ve had is that the Discord still seems very driven towards Smite and that the overall layout is disorganized and not well kept.

 

Some positives that I, personally, value greatly for FFXIV in general is the ability to tag members and contact players while they’re offline. I can easily announce events and notify people of hunts, dungeon runs, FATEs, etc in the text channels there while we cannot on TS3. Many people who have the Discord client (don’t use the browser version, I’ll save you some time there) have the mobile app too (which is FREE) so they’re constantly able to see what’s going on in the chats and see the notifications we put in as well. Aside from that, I also appreciate that we can pin messages and provide places to put guides and such that are easy to find rather than roaming the forums for a period of time during a dungeon run. These chats also don’t disappear after you log off and you can easily add in on a topic at any time as people will still see the topics discussed. Overall, the possibilities within Discord for MMO games are endless and the struggle to recruit without having an organized Discord has taken a toll on us in FFXIV.

 

To address some of the struggles that were discussed in the Admin meeting, I would like to say that there is a way to make Donator channels and give them specific commands. Being as there aren’t a massive amount of people who have many active channels, this can be easily done with individual, untaggable roles and you can give them “Private” channels that only they have access to move people in and out of. The permissions of this channel can also be changed should they wish it to be opened to be public, as well. After discussing with Aerineth, I think that with the current number of people who have purchased private channels, this is completely doable and won’t be too big of a hassle. I’ve also shown Aerineth that it is possible on a little test server ;)

 

Furthermore, you can turn off the ability to tag everyone in a server or only set it to a certain group. You can also create groups for the divisions and give them permissions (i.e., differentiate FFXIV Members, FFXIV Leadership, etc and give them all hidden tags and you CAN tag those specific tags instead of the entire channel), and I’m sure this can be managed with other roles that I do not have permissions to see within the TS3 server. This might take a little bit of time to fully accomplish, but it isn’t impossible and I’m sure the permissions in TS3 took a little bit of time to cover and finish up as well. I’d love to keep testing things out on my test server and see if it’s possible, so if there’s any other questions or concerns about the capabilities that Discord has in regards to supporting a community of our size, please poke me.

 

Aside from that, that’s what I’ve got right now. I know quite a bit about Discord and I love messing around with permissions so I’ll try to answer and clarify things as the post goes on. I’m sure Xayj will be doing the same.

Edited by MelodicRose(OD)
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Was I the only one who heard this was supposed to be in a public sub-forum? Or did we change that to Officers Only forum?

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29 minutes ago, Collin(OD) said:

Ignore.. Can't delete on a cell phone.

 

 

29 minutes ago, Collin(OD) said:

Was I the only one who heard this was supposed to be in a public sub-forum? Or did we change that to Officers Only forum?

 

We have it here so division leaders and officers can state what they need for their division so that we are aware if the needs of each division when we take into consideration the topic. It'll be moved public in a few days. This was talked about at the end of the meeting.

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On 12/10/2017 at 10:29 PM, MelodicRose(OD) said:

Hello,

 

I suppose I’ll start off with my two cents in this topic.

 

<insert 6 paragraphs>

 

God help us if you ever decide to add in a whole dollar. Also would you be willing to send me a link to your test discord? I might use it to learn more about Discord permissions myself, if that is all right.

 

The question of moving to Discord has been brought up quite a few times, and between the information people have provided in the past and those most recently provided in the Admin Meeting we just had, it is clear that there are both great benefits and great concerns in doing so. But people keep talking about making the switch as if we have to completely drop one and put all of our eggs in the basket of the other, when this doesn't necessarily need to be the case.

 

Instead of asking the question "Should we switch?" I think the better question to ask is "What can we do to improve our Discord?". Something the recent discussions have definitely brought to light is that our Discord is currently being under-developed, people have mentioned that it is geared towards Smite a lot still, that some of OD's expectations aren't being upheld, that it could offer a lot more than what it does.

So let us focus on that. Adapt its channels to better support all Divisions, its permissions to better reflect our ranks. If it *can* have MvP channels then let's add them in. Let's focus our attention on building that up and get it to match the needs of our Clan as best it can.

 

If we do that, if the Discord can honestly support our needs, then people will naturally gravitate towards it on their own. They already are, in fact. If the benefits become apparent then more people will start to use it, and as more people start to use it we will begin to better understand any challenges or problems we come across from managing it and our community from within it. Those problems will either be overcome or push as back to other avenues.

 

The more people use it, the more those left on Teamspeak will give in and move over to be where everyone is. If we focus on developing our Discord then OD's switch to Discord will happen on its own, with no need for an official transition. It will be gradual, but very safe, and if it turns out things go terribly wrong or that Discord was in fact just a fad that passes on, we can still move back to Teamspeak during that time without much difficulty.

 

I think this would be the best and most practical approach.

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32 minutes ago, Terra said:

its permissions to better reflect our ranks.

 

I need @Xayj(OD) to give a second confirmation on this, but this is currently not possible in Discord.  Discord's permission system is not capable of replicating the one we have on TeamSpeak.  As an example, move power is universal, it is not possible to make a Warrant Officer rank on Discord that can move only Enlisted and below, if a rank gives move power it allows the user to move anyone.

 

This can be done by using Discord's app building functionality, however it would not be using the standard Discord powers.  Instead, powers, at least those unable to be replicated on Discord, would have to be carried out through text commands using a bot as a surrogate.  Obviously, this would require someone taking the time to code up this bot.  Furthermore, a more robust permission system is already something the Discord developers have said they intend to work on, so ultimately this bot would be made with the knowledge that one day it will no longer be necessary.

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Alright, I'm not going to quote people directly here or w.e my brain fog is still to thick and I'm still not feeling great. But, I want to get to this topic now that it has started but before it blows up to kingdom come with responses. After a very lengthy conversation with rose last night that had many a misunderstandings. I was invited to her test server. Her test server is primarily being built by Collin and her from what I can see. Honestly, It's such a nice server part of me wants to demand we delete our current one and move everyone over to that one right now.

 

BUT, barring me not asking for such an insane act. I will use the server for it's currently intended purpose and that's for testing. @Altros(OD) brought up something that I had mentioned to @MelodicRose(OD) being what will probably be a game breaking factor for a lot of of people. The fact that as of my last testing of discord ranks. Move, Bank, and Kick powers are universal. Meaning that a Warrant Officer could in fact Move, Kick or Ban a Commander if they so chose to. This is something I plan on testing on the server rose invited me to. Thankfully they already re-tested all the things I would have already wanted to test with groups and channels and "private channels" and it sounds like things work just fine. So I personally can't find a reason to say we can't have channel for people who donated etc...

Collin has done an amazing job organizing the discord channels in a manner that should make any single member happy with the channel flow. Information is readily available and I think overall with some work we can have the server running great. 

 

But, as of right now I can't personally say I'd be willing to switch or not. I can only say great strides have been made with testing and the efforts to prove it could work. Especially in such a short time. 

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4 hours ago, Terra said:

 

God help us if you ever decide to add in a whole dollar. 

 

^ XD.

 

 

I am really on the fence with this one. After hearing a lot of other opinions on this potential change, the things that really stand out to me

are:

 

  1. Donor channels.
  2. Voice security and custom permissions.

Then my own personal opinion on Discord VS TeamSpeak

  1. TS's Badge system ( I feel it makes things look a lot cleaner compared to what is currently being done in Discord)
  2. Channel separation looks really clean on TS compared to Discord's; which looks really clumpy.
  3. More robust admin tools for TS compared to Discord ( Log system , Admin panel, ETC) 

I hate using this analogy, but if it's not broken, don't fix it. TS works great. Yes, is it old school? Of course it is. However; for the community, it does everything we need it do without having to invest time and effort into replicating it into another VoIP service.

 

Overall, I do agree that Discord could just be a "phase"; however, I do think it's a great VoIP service for smaller groups to communicate. If I had to take a vote, I would probably stick with TS, but I would love to hear other opinions. Also, I would love to get a tour of the admin side of Discord as I have no experience with it and would like to see how it compares to other VoIP services I have used in the past.

 

 

-OptimusMike(OD)

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8 minutes ago, OptimusMike(OD) said:

 

 

 

^ XD.

 

 

I am really on the fence with this one. After hearing a lot of other opinions on this potential change, the things that really stand out to me

are:

 

  1. Donor channels.
  2. Voice security and custom permissions.

Then my own personal opinion on Discord VS TeamSpeak

  1. TS's Badge system ( I feel it makes things look a lot cleaner compared to what is currently being done in Discord)
  2. Channel separation looks really clean on TS compared to Discord's; which looks really clumpy.
  3. More robust admin tools for TS compared to Discord ( Log system , Admin panel, ETC) 

I hate using this analogy, but if it's not broken, don't fix it. TS works great. Yes, is it old school? Of course it is. However; for the community, it does everything we need it do without having to invest time and effort into replicating it into another VoIP service.

 

Overall, I do agree that Discord could just be a "phase"; however, I do think it's a great VoIP service for smaller groups to communicate. If I had to take a vote, I would probably stick with TS, but I would love to hear other opinions. Also, I would love to get a tour of the admin side of Discord as I have no experience with it and would like to see how it compares to other VoIP services I have used in the past.

 

 

-OptimusMike(OD)

 

I can't address all of your concerns. But, discord as of a few updates ago. Does have a log system. In fact it's a super easy to search one. In terms of an admin panel what exactly are you looking for in comparison to teamspeak? The more detailed you are the better I can answer your concerns.  

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8 minutes ago, Xayj(OD) said:

 

I can't address all of your concerns. But, discord as of a few updates ago. Does have a log system. In fact it's a super easy to search one. In terms of an admin panel what exactly are you looking for in comparison to teamspeak? The more detailed you are the better I can answer your concerns.  

Xayj,

 

It's been a while since I've used the TS admin panel. It was a third-party program, so I would need to do some research.  Unless a commander is using it still, let me locate it and I will get back to you once I find it.

 

 

Edit: This bastard looks old, but it looks like this was it: YATQA - query admin tool

Edited by OptimusMike(OD)

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Just tested. If someone is the same rank as you or higher you cannot kick or ban them. Example: Sr. Officer cannot kick/ban a General.

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Just now, Collin(OD) said:

Just tested. If someone is the same rank as you or higher you cannot kick or ban them. Example: Sr. Officer cannot kick/ban a General.

 

Beat me to it ya fuck... lol 

It looks like they finally fixed this horrible horrible fucking flaw in their permission system. 

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Is the idea to try to get everyone on one voice program?

 

I've used both and as long as we can still do everything on discord that we can do on teamspeak. I would not be opposed to switching to discord. Seems like most of the newer games player bases prefer discord. 

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That would be ideal, yes. 

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12 hours ago, Collin(OD) said:

Just tested. If someone is the same rank as you or higher you cannot kick or ban them. Example: Sr. Officer cannot kick/ban a General.

 

Glad to hear that is the case, cuz that would definitely have been a game-breaker. Does this apply to moving people as well, or just the kick/ban features specifically?

 

On an unrelated note, let's aim to have this topic moved to public view starting Saturday.

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8 hours ago, Terra said:

 

Glad to hear that is the case, cuz that would definitely have been a game-breaker. Does this apply to moving people as well, or just the kick/ban features specifically?

 

On an unrelated note, let's aim to have this topic moved to public view starting Saturday.

Someone of lower or equal rank can still move you as per our testing on the test server. Which is actually something we need if you think about it since channel permissions don't exist. And if we want to even try to replicate Donator channels than Donators need to be able to move people out of their channels that are not wanted. And it has less repercussions than a kick or a ban on a discord server. A kick or a ban on a discord server renders the join link that person used originally useless and they must obtain a new one. 

Edited by Xayj(OD)

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I see. Well then we will just have to enforce the standard rule that you aren't allowed to move anyone without their permission, it will just extend to all ranks in Discord rather than just the higher ranks as it is in Teamspeak. As long as that rule is followed then it shouldn't really be an issue.

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14 hours ago, Xayj(OD) said:

Someone of lower or equal rank can still move you as per our testing on the test server. Which is actually something we need if you think about it since channel permissions don't exist. And if we want to even try to replicate Donator channels than Donators need to be able to move people out of their channels that are not wanted. And it has less repercussions than a kick or a ban on a discord server. A kick or a ban on a discord server renders the join link that person used originally useless and they must obtain a new one. 

That sounds terrible. 

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I'm fine with ensuring the move power won't be abused. I for one won't tolerate people moving me without permission. And I can think of a few who'd want to move me if they could. *Glares* 

 

In terms of Discord, I agree with Rose. I don't have the energy to re-hash everything, but when I first started using Discord I hated it with a passion. To be honest, I thought it was pointless to use another. And that was all before I tried it. Granted I was upset with the web version.. don't ever do that to yourself. Just no. But once I got in.. I actually like it. I like the way it looks, feels, and functions. It feels.. more fluid. I can see the allure to Discord. With the recent modifications, I think it actually looks better than Teamspeak.

 

We cannot abandon Teamspeak either. Because correct me if I'm wrong, there's currently no way to record, hence, no recording of our meetings. 

 

@Xayj(OD) @Collin(OD) @MelodicRose(OD) Rose and I spoke about ddos'ing in the past. To my understanding.. the way Discord functions as a server, it'd be difficult to impossible to ddos the server (for Discord). Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

 

So for me.. 

 

Pros:

Sleeker

Easier to use

Popular choice among new gamers

Could draw more people into the community

Easier to contact members for events with logging of announcements via Division Chat Channels.

You can be 'on' Discord without being on, so it gives a better idea of actual activity

It's free!

Bots can be used for the betterment of the community.

 

Cons:

We'd have 2 chat programs

We'd have to move everyone from one to the other (eventually possibly)

Permissions aren't quite as powerful yet as Teamspeak (But they're being worked on by Discords team)

Some people are pretty adamant about rejecting Discord

 

 

I don't have the energy for more typing.. so I'll post this for now and will add more probably tomorrow. But these are my current thoughts in my exhausted state.

 

Another thing before I forget. Especially now that we have a much cleaner Discord, if divisions have their own discord, they need to be moving towards using the OD one. We don't need to be more scattered than already with 2 official servers. I keep hearing rumors of other discords hosted by divisions. It was decided a while back that if someone wants to use Discord, they have to use ours, not their own.

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48 minutes ago, Aerineth(OD) said:

We cannot abandon Teamspeak either. Because correct me if I'm wrong, there's currently no way to record, hence, no recording of our meetings.

 

While Discord doesn't do this natively, it's pretty easy to do capture audio from an application using ffmpeg.

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7 minutes ago, Altros(OD) said:

 

While Discord doesn't do this natively, it's pretty easy to do capture audio from an application using ffmpeg.

 

That program..  it's almost annoying how useful it is... -_-

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5 minutes ago, Aerineth(OD) said:

 

That program..  it's almost annoying how useful it is... -_-

 

Actually, my bad.  For windows, it's only easy to capture video from a specific application.  To easily capture audio from a specific application using ffmpeg you need to be running linux.  You can still capture audio using ffmpeg on windows but you can only capture audio from all applications.  Plus, you'd have to do sound mixing to also capture your own microphone.

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You could just use OBS. 

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Or go to meeting

Could you be in multiple servers at one time in Diksord?

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5 minutes ago, Badboi(OD) said:

Or go to meeting

Could you be in multiple servers at one time in Diksord?

You can join into multiple servers but can only be in one voice chat at all times. If you try to join another voice chat on another server, it'll boot you out of the other one. This is assuming that's what you meant.. you weren't very specific lol

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